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Original poster

GRA REFORM OR REPEAL?

88 replies

AnnieBarbour · 04/02/2022 21:12

I have a question, and I would love to know what you think.

I want those who experience gender dysphoria and those who identify as transgender to live lives free of harassment, stigma and prejudice. I have a transgender grandchild, so I know how difficult it can be to identify as trans. I think as a society we can do better, indeed we must do better. Some of that ‘doing better’ is about societal acceptance and education out of prejudice, while some of it is about legislation, and it’s on legislation where I’d like your input.

It has seemed to me for some time that some of the mess we are in now is down to mistakes that were made with the Gender Recognition Act (GRA) in 2004. Some of the impetus for that Act came from the need to protect the rights of transgender people in marriage – a need that no longer exists since we have had same sex marriage. Some of it came from a need to protect transgender people from harassment and discrimination in the workplace. Sadly, the good intentions behind the Act did not have entirely the best outcomes. It led to an understanding that it is possible to actually change sex, something we all know (although not everyone admits) is impossible. And that understanding has led to considerable conflict with other group who are have protected characteristics under the Equality Act.

So, I want to make a bold suggestion. I suggest we do reform the GRA, but not by just simplifying the process of gaining a Gender Recognition Certificate. I suggest we completely reform it, making it more fit for purpose. I suggest we may find we can repeal it because we don’t need it after all.

To do so, I suggest we ask:

  1. Where does recording someone’s sex actually matter? My suggestion is it is no longer necessary on passports, driving licences its; especially now we have iris recognition etc, but that it IS necessary for data collection.
  2. Are there any areas where the harassment, stigmatisation, and discrimination of transgender people is not already covered by existing legislation?
  3. Is the current trend of conflating sex with gender really helpful to transgender people?

Looking forward to hearing your views!

OP posts:
DomesticatedZombie · 04/02/2022 22:04

All we need is for the legal definition of gender to be super clear, and for everyone to understand that it is not sex and never will be.

Birth certs should reflect reality and not be changed. When sex matters, that's what we need to record. Gender doesn't really matter in most instances, it's 'pink or blue' and has no relevance when it comes to healthcare or legalities etc.

Strengthen and apply single sex exemptions. Then do whatever you want with Gender, wear kitten heels and a full beard, nobody really cares.

Redlake · 04/02/2022 22:03

@Ereshkigalangcleg

The GRA allows the issue of a new birth certificate.

Yes, and some people feel that it should never have been possible to falsify a historical document in this way.

Some people.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/02/2022 22:00

The GRA allows the issue of a new birth certificate.

Yes, and some people feel that it should never have been possible to falsify a historical document in this way.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/02/2022 21:59

It leaves no question as to someones legal sex

There are exemptions provided for in both the GRA and the Equality Act, when someone has a GRC. So no, the GRC holder doesn't have exactly the same legal position as a member of the sex they have the legal fiction as belonging to.

OhHolyJesus · 04/02/2022 21:55

It leaves no question as to someones legal sex.

Legal sex Vs Birth sex.

Actual real biological sex, recorded at birth vs imagined, pretend, legally constructed, presented as fiction, under bad law 'sex'.

It's not 'sex' or 'legal sex' anyway, it's not even 'gender'...it's 'gender reassignment' and that's the point. It was a mess from the start, and now we know why.

It worked for a while, but the jig is up.

Redlake · 04/02/2022 21:41

The GRA allows the issue of a new birth certificate. THAT was the original intention of the recognition campaign. The new birth certificate provides all that is needed. It leaves no question as to someones legal sex.
Some nasty bigoted people would like to take that away from a tiny minority who really depend on it's security.

ThatsWhenTheCannibalismStarted · 04/02/2022 21:39

Repeal. Bad law, badly written. The purpose originally was to allow same sex marriage for a sub group of gay people, and for "privacy" of the GRC holder. That is, allow biological sex to be kept secret.

I find the former purpose quite upsetting, really. Why should same sex marriage be allowed only when one person purports to be the opposite sex? Why not all gay people and lesbians? Pure homophobia. Homophobia enshrined in law. It took 10 more years for other gay people gain the right to marry.

As for "privacy"... I can't help but laugh at the notion that it's possible to conceal biological sex in anything but the most vanishingly rare cases.

Yeah. Repeal. Repeal now.

VestofAbsurdity · 04/02/2022 21:35

1.Where does recording someone’s sex actually matter? My suggestion is it is no longer necessary on passports, driving licences its; especially now we have iris recognition etc, but that it IS necessary for data collection.

As OhHolyJesussays it matters everywhere and you are living in la-la land if you think it doesn't.

I think the GRA should be consigned to the bin, the only people who can live as a woman is someone who was born one, it's insulting to reduce women or men to stereotypes of looks and behaviour.

People should be able to dress as they wish, change their names, whatever and not face discrimination or prejudice for doing so and be accepted but the clear and distinct line is that their sex does not and never will change and all sex segregated spaces, services and facilities remain exactly that segregated on the basis of sex.

OhHolyJesus · 04/02/2022 21:23

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I doubt this thread will last long so very quickly I'm dropping this in...

It's a great site with some brilliant writing.

Brilliant blogs, high humour and hits the nail on the head. Every single time. Well worth a read.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/02/2022 21:22

I doubt this thread will last long so very quickly I'm dropping this in...

It's a great site with some brilliant writing.

OhHolyJesus · 04/02/2022 21:22

To answer your questions.

  1. Where does recording someone’s sex actually matter? My suggestion is it is no longer necessary on passports, driving licences its; especially now we have iris recognition etc, but that it IS necessary for data collection.

Everywhere - proof of ID, medical records, education, employment, safeguarding, the census, and yes data collection. It matters everywhere, it can't possibly be reduced to passports.

  1. Are there any areas where the harassment, stigmatisation, and discrimination of transgender people is not already covered by existing legislation?
    No.

  2. Is the current trend of conflating sex with gender really helpful to transgender people?

No

OhHolyJesus · 04/02/2022 21:18

And this

gcritical.org/2020/10/05/the-grarg-manifesto/

OhHolyJesus · 04/02/2022 21:17

I doubt this thread will last long so very quickly I'm dropping this in...

www.repealthegra.org/