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Original poster

Child protection crises in NI (Stonewall partner The Rainbow Project & others)

39 replies

SexNotGenderNI · 04/02/2022 16:30

Stonewall partner with The Rainbow Project in NI. Remember Yaniv's all-ages topless swim events? Here's The Rainbow Project asking for donations to keep theirs going (they say 'wear whatever is comfortable'). We're putting in a complaint to the PSNI (who are captured) and to the Charity Commission (who we hope are not). Please share this far and wide. Shocking breach of child protection, and no-one seems to be noticing.

twitter.com/SexNotGenderNI/status/1489557635796209664

Child protection crises in NI (Stonewall partner The Rainbow Project & others)
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FemaleAndLearning · 05/02/2022 18:47

So non-binary female girls may be attending too?

Goatsaregreat · 05/02/2022 18:34

Hmm. The lack of respect for other people's boundaries is very clear to see baba.

barleybadminton · 05/02/2022 18:33

@Goatsaregreat

Another reminder that intersex organisations have asked trans activists not to use them in their 'debates'
They are being invited to go swimming, not being used in a debate.
Goatsaregreat · 05/02/2022 18:31

Another reminder that intersex organisations have asked trans activists not to use them in their 'debates'

barleybadminton · 05/02/2022 18:26

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

It wasn't me who brought up intersex people on this thread.

It was stated on the poster. Even though the poster’s headline states “trans only”.

So do you have a problem with intersex people being invited to this event? I think it makes a lot of sense, as we know intersex conditions are quite rare so there probably wouldn't be enough demand for an intersex only event.
FOJN · 05/02/2022 17:52

So you can have Trans only swim, but not a womens only swim

Funny that...

Child protection crises in NI (Stonewall partner The Rainbow Project & others)
Artichokeleaves · 05/02/2022 17:00

@MrMrsJones

So you can have Trans only swim, but not a womens only swim
You can even have an LGBT+ specific rape crisis group, a male specific rape crisis group and a women's rape crisis group in which anyone of either sex is welcome.

But you absolutely can't have a female only group.

Doubletoilandtrouble · 05/02/2022 16:36

I am happy with a 18+ trans only swim. Go for it!! A third space and great for transpeople.

And then we should obviously add a (biological) female only swim on another time.

MrMrsJones · 05/02/2022 16:26

So you can have Trans only swim, but not a womens only swim

Artichokeleaves · 05/02/2022 16:24

In safeguarding terms it has to be asked: what has happened to improve things after someone has been harmed by reducing safeguarding and mixing sexes through this ideology insisting it will be harmless?

The lobby shrug, say it doesn't matter, and carry on.

To pp: I believe you are fine to advertise a single sex facility or resource for female people so long as you make it plain that male people may enter at will and be welcomed. (That this excludes some females from using the space is also apparently not a problem; inclusion does not apply to them for some reason.)

delurkasaurus · 05/02/2022 16:20

"All ages". Even wider than Gendered Intelligence with their half-naked, mixed sex swimming where 8 year olds are in sessions with 25 year olds.
https://genderedintelligence.co.uk/swimming.htmll_
“Trans-only swimming sessions for 8-25 year olds. Twice a month from January-May.
Wear what you want to swim, so long as your bottom half is covered.”

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 05/02/2022 16:15

It wasn't me who brought up intersex people on this thread.

It was stated on the poster. Even though the poster’s headline states “trans only”.

AngelicaElizaAndPeggy · 05/02/2022 14:53

Don't really get the issue here? Just sounds like a specially arranged session for people who would otherwise feel to awkward and afraid to go swimming. What would you suggest instead?

TheWatersofMarch · 05/02/2022 14:46

I'm not getting the message that 'wear what you feel comfortable in' entails flouting the normal coverage rules. I do feel quite sympathetic to this organisation tbh, I can see that going swimming may be an ordeal for some trans people and this group is trying to create a space where people aren't stared at, judged etc.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 05/02/2022 10:26

I haven't seen anything that says that parents are not able to attend (?)

My worry would be the age group where parents would not normally attend - so 14 or 15 upwards.

I imagine that the pool has a rule about the minimum age of attendance without parent or guardian supervision.

Original poster
SexNotGenderNI · 05/02/2022 10:17

PS Safeguarding is also about raising issues as soon as they are identified, to prevent harm being done. You don't wait until you have evidence that harm has already been done before raising the alarm; that is a collateral damage approach. No child should be collateral damage to an ideology.

OP posts:
Original poster
SexNotGenderNI · 05/02/2022 10:15

Exactly, Spartacus.

This is a 'trans only' event (yet appropriates 'intersex' as a subset of trans, when DSD advocates have indeed been asking for quite some time that trans activists not do so).

This means that 'non-trans' parents aren't able to attend.

Public swimming pools are indeed all ages, WITH PARENTS OR GUARDIANS PRESENT. That is vastly different from a private, no-parent all-ages session.

The information clearly states they privately book the pool and changing rooms. Again, no parental presence for any kids, and no single-sex provision.

DSD-friendly swim sessions, either for adults, or for kids but with standard parental supervision (whether or not parent has DSD) would be wonderful, if not already a thing. That is not what this is.

This thread has been useful to highlight ignorance around safeguarding, and how as soon as 'trans' is added to something, it is treated as not being subject to the same safeguarding standards as anything else. Which is, of course, the basic premise of queer theory - that boundaries should be weakened or dismantled.

OP posts:
YetAnotherSpartacus · 04/02/2022 23:33

Well no. A third space, this space, for adults to swim in whatever gear they want, or no gear if that takes their fancy, is fine. Go for it. The key here is ‘all ages’ alongside the suggestion that some swimmers may choose to swim in very little or even that children might be swimming in very little, with adults. That was clear in the initial post. I’d seriously wonder about safeguarding and what is implemented to protect those under 18.

terryleather · 04/02/2022 23:33

@Rightsraptor

How interesting that trans etc people are allowed their own swimming sessions while women-only sessions are becoming verboten. Rather like the trans-only counselling sessions for dv/rape but similar for women only aren't permitted any longer.
I know...funny that...
lanadelgrey · 04/02/2022 23:26

Sounds as if this is a third space and I sense a bit of pearl clutching as the main thing is that it need money to keep it running as there hasn’t been a huge take up. Some people want to swim and some, probably the larger part of any population don’t so only a few specific sessions ever work in a public pool. If say disabled swimming with hoists and carers in the pool as happened at my then local pool quite a while ago then the relevant local organisations from nearby boroughs all came.

barleybadminton · 04/02/2022 23:14

Just campaign for third spaces! And if you get them we'll accuse you of being perverts and try to get them shut down.

yetanotherusernameAgain · 04/02/2022 23:09

Do you have evidence that children attend or are you just assuming from the phrase "people of all ages"? If it's just for adults or older teens I don't see what the problem is.

As for "wear whatever is comfortable" - so what? Presumably the pool has rules about what swimmers can wear - they're not going to be naked nor so encumbered with clothing to be dangerous to their safety. One of the people in the photo is wearing a T-shirt and it's likely that some of the swimmers will be self conscious and prefer to stay covered.

I'm too self conscious to go swimming so I can understand why they might be. It's no different to a women-only session or women wanting to wear 'modest' swimwear or burkinis without getting strange looks.

Plus it avoids the issue of transwomen in women's changing rooms, which is what we've been wanting

Rightsraptor · 04/02/2022 22:58

How interesting that trans etc people are allowed their own swimming sessions while women-only sessions are becoming verboten. Rather like the trans-only counselling sessions for dv/rape but similar for women only aren't permitted any longer.

barleybadminton · 04/02/2022 22:57

@Triphazards

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.
You do know that most swimming pools are open to people of all ages don't you? Are they grooming sessions as well?
barleybadminton · 04/02/2022 22:55

@Goatsaregreat

Odd isn't it - no matter how many times the Intersex organisations ask, demand, plead with transactivists not to appropriate them in tra battles, they are always ignored. On and on it goes - the disrespectful treatment of the intersex community.
It wasn't me who brought up intersex people on this thread. And I very much doubt intersex organisations would object to someone organising swimming sessions for intersex people.
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