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Original poster

Dare I ask - the trans issue?

293 replies

shoplifteroftheworld · 04/02/2022 15:17

How do people feel about the 'trans women are women' idea?

A friend recently said I was a TERF which I'm not but I don't agree that a man in his 50's who suddenly identifies as female and wears a dress has any idea of what it is to be truly female.

Feeling that you are trapped in the wrong body must be hell and the surgery one goes through is extreme to say the least. But it doesn't make you the opposite sex to the one you were born as.

Am I getting this wrong?

OP posts:
Wannakisstheteacher · 04/02/2022 16:59

Absolutely right. A man is a man whether he has a penis or not. You cannot change your DNA just because you “feel” like something else.

LondonWolf · 04/02/2022 16:56

@Snowisfalling33

Couldn't you have read one of the hundreds of threads that already exist on this issue though 🤷‍♂️
I'm glad to see new threads regularly on the main boards because I remember a few years back when the majority of posters on here were telling anyone with concerns around these issues that they were bigoted, transphobic, backward blah blah blah. Things have certainly changed as reality hit and women began to realise what the cost of mindlessly chanting "Trans Women Are Women!" actually is. I'm very glad to see mainstream discussion despite the best efforts of trans rights activists to shut it down.
SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 04/02/2022 16:56

bones.fandom.com/wiki/The_He_in_the_She#:~:text=The%20He%20in%20the%20She%20is%20the%20seventh,the%20fourth%20season%20of%20Bones.

Springs to mind actually!

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 04/02/2022 16:54

[quote NutsOhHazelnuts]@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea was it you who asked about bone density?

"Puberty blockers stunted the height and impaired the bone mass density of children wishing to change gender, researchers have found."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/puberty-blockers-stunt-bone-growth-of-children-tlv8qmdcd

Taken from GIDS research:
[/quote]
It was thanks!

Fluffymule · 04/02/2022 16:53

Humans cannot change sex.

Sex matters.

Women’s sex based rights are rooted in our biological reality.

Pretending that the physical, biological difference between men and women no longer exists (or never existed according to gender identity activists) demolishes our ability to uphold and protect our rights.

Wigglegiggle0520 · 04/02/2022 16:53

@LondonWolf

You have a problem with transwomen, and don't for a second say you don't. You don't get to decide how they identify, thankfully and never will.

I couldn't care less how anyone chooses to identify but when it comes to my teenage daughter never having the choice of when and in what context she sees male genitals then I am afraid it stops there.

This.
SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 04/02/2022 16:52

[quote Giraffesandbottoms]**@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea* and @Waitwhat23*

Thank you so much for doing some googling on this - glad I’m not the only one who finds it fascinating![/quote]
I used to love watching Bones back when it was on TV and was always amazed how she could identify so much detail from a skeleton (although I appreciate they had some artistic licence with the facts!)

Snowisfalling33 · 04/02/2022 16:51

Couldn't you have read one of the hundreds of threads that already exist on this issue though 🤷‍♂️

NutsOhHazelnuts · 04/02/2022 16:51

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea was it you who asked about bone density?

"Puberty blockers stunted the height and impaired the bone mass density of children wishing to change gender, researchers have found."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/puberty-blockers-stunt-bone-growth-of-children-tlv8qmdcd

Taken from GIDS research:

Dare I ask - the trans issue?
TheAbbotOfUnreason · 04/02/2022 16:50

@ScrollingLeaves

“TheAbbotOfUnreason

Pelvic morphology differs markedly between the sexes, but only after puberty. It seems that with the onset of puberty, the female pelvis expands; with the onset of menopause, it contracts again. The male pelvis remains on the same developmental trajectory throughout a lifetime.

www.pnas.org/content/113/19/5227”

The differences exist before puberty but are more difficult to distinguish.

Not sure if the link to the paper worked.

Results show that, until puberty, female and male pelves exhibit only moderate sexual dimorphism and follow largely similar developmental trajectories. With the onset of puberty, however, the female trajectory diverges substantially from the common course, resulting in rapid expansion of obstetrically relevant pelvic dimensions up to the age of 25–30 y.

Only moderate differences between male and female pelvises before puberty so would make it difficult to differentiate between the sexes.

Giraffesandbottoms · 04/02/2022 16:49

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea and @Waitwhat23

Thank you so much for doing some googling on this - glad I’m not the only one who finds it fascinating!

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 04/02/2022 16:48

Me too please @ScrollingLeaves @DrSaibasto

DrSbaitso · 04/02/2022 16:43

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@DrSaibatso
I’ll see if I can find that link to a poster who explained on another thread that a male is not adapted from a female blue-print as was formerly taught.[/quote]
Thank you. Please feel free to PM as I may not see it otherwise.

skippy67 · 04/02/2022 16:43

No, you're not getting it wrong. No they're not women.

DrSbaitso · 04/02/2022 16:43

If you're serious about joining womanhood, not getting everything you want due to the body you inhabit is pretty much lesson 1.

LondonWolf · 04/02/2022 16:43

You have a problem with transwomen, and don't for a second say you don't. You don't get to decide how they identify, thankfully and never will.

I couldn't care less how anyone chooses to identify but when it comes to my teenage daughter never having the choice of when and in what context she sees male genitals then I am afraid it stops there.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/02/2022 16:42

@DrSaibatso
I’ll see if I can find that link to a poster who explained on another thread that a male is not adapted from a female blue-print as was formerly taught.

ThreeB · 04/02/2022 16:41

@Squidgames4U

Whether or not trans women are women, I am in the camp that believes they should be treated as women in society. Their experiences will be different, but my experiences will be very different to yours.
At what point should they be treated as a woman? Is it after surgery or after hormones or after a name change?
Ionlydomassiveones · 04/02/2022 16:41

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Supersee · 04/02/2022 16:39

@Squidgames4U

Whether or not trans women are women, I am in the camp that believes they should be treated as women in society. Their experiences will be different, but my experiences will be very different to yours.
They should be treated with respect and kindness, like any other human being should.

They should also recognise that their dysphoria unfortunately comes with disadvantages, such as being unable to access certain sex based spaces and participate in women's sports.

SamphiretheStickerist · 04/02/2022 16:38

it’s complicated by ethnic differences.

Yes. As I had to repeat almost every session on such things:

There are many, many more differences between any one individual and the individual standing next to them than than are between any other cohort, ethnicity, sex included.

But the broad brush strokes apply - e.g male and female chins. Just because a female swimmer, like Sharon Davis, will lay down more bone mass on her chin because of the training she does, we don't mistake her for a male (well, not unless we are desperately trying to make a daft point). And a male who competes at the same level, will also have bone adaptations that are equally measurable, but not necessarily the to the same etent, or to the same bones.

EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn · 04/02/2022 16:38

@borntobequiet

How about a child who’s just started puberty?

I should have said pre-pubescent or pubescent.

👍
SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 04/02/2022 16:37

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea
“original body blueprint for all humans is female.“

This used to be taught but is no longer considered true.

This came up on another thread and someone explained.[/quote]
Ah, I didn't know this either

off to google again

DrSbaitso · 04/02/2022 16:37

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea
“original body blueprint for all humans is female.“

This used to be taught but is no longer considered true.

This came up on another thread and someone explained.[/quote]
Could you link? Thank you.

DrSbaitso · 04/02/2022 16:36

A friend recently said I was a TERF

I don't think that person could recognise a radical feminist if they were slapped in the face by the trans inclusive Andrea Dworkin.

I'm so bored of woken being shut down by a crap insult that doesn't even make sense.