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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dare I ask - the trans issue?

293 replies

shoplifteroftheworld · 04/02/2022 15:17

How do people feel about the 'trans women are women' idea?

A friend recently said I was a TERF which I'm not but I don't agree that a man in his 50's who suddenly identifies as female and wears a dress has any idea of what it is to be truly female.

Feeling that you are trapped in the wrong body must be hell and the surgery one goes through is extreme to say the least. But it doesn't make you the opposite sex to the one you were born as.

Am I getting this wrong?

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 07/02/2022 19:03

“No1MummyJacky
Honestly You all need to get a life, if my son decided he wanted to be a woman I would still love her she would just be my daughter where do you Conservative weirdo's get off assuming you have the right to decide what others can be, drink your wine, send your minion memes, and Live Love Laugh away that emptiness you feel.“

I don’t know how old your son is, but before a child is an adult, their parents owe it to them to not automatically go along with them taking any action which might cause them harm, or affect their life adversely forever; their parents owe them a duty of care to try to find out all possible sources of distress that might be causing them to doubt themselves; their parents owe them a duty of care to protect them from thoughtless conforming to peer pressure.

Their parents would feel they had a duty of care for these things whether they were about taking drugs, driving dangerously, being in an abusive relationship, not eating because of anorexia, not bothering to go to school, picking up a popular ideology uncritically. A parent taking care of their children in this way is an adult, loving parent.

The kind you are talking about is more like an on-line, social media ‘like’-friend who is swayed by the latest fashions.

Waitwhat23 · 07/02/2022 18:59

And minion memes? Seriously?

Waitwhat23 · 07/02/2022 18:58

I knew this meme would come in handy at one point!

Dare I ask - the trans issue?
No1MummyJacky · 07/02/2022 18:34

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DrSbaitso · 07/02/2022 18:27

[quote Gosports]@No1MummyJacky you’re taking the mickey, right? Please say you are, no one could say that with a straight face.[/quote]
Oh, I don't think for one second that it's serious, but that doesn't mean the poster isn't embarrassing themselves.

Gosports · 07/02/2022 18:20

@No1MummyJacky you’re taking the mickey, right? Please say you are, no one could say that with a straight face.

RedToothBrush · 07/02/2022 18:20

@No1MummyJacky

Honestly You all need to get a life, if my son decided he wanted to be a woman I would still love her she would just be my daughter where do you Conservative weirdo's get off assuming you have the right to decide what others can be, drink your wine, send your minion memes, and Live Love Laugh away that emptiness you feel.
When you find an argument instead of insults come back and share it.

Until then, i remain somewhat unconvinced by your point.

DrSbaitso · 07/02/2022 18:15

@No1MummyJacky

Honestly You all need to get a life, if my son decided he wanted to be a woman I would still love her she would just be my daughter where do you Conservative weirdo's get off assuming you have the right to decide what others can be, drink your wine, send your minion memes, and Live Love Laugh away that emptiness you feel.
Stop embarrassing yourself.
No1MummyJacky · 07/02/2022 18:12

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tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 07/02/2022 13:52

@Lordamighty

Humans can’t change sex.
> waits for someone to pipe up that "science has moved in since he studied it, though " Grin
tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 07/02/2022 13:49

@Squidgames4U

Whether or not trans women are women, I am in the camp that believes they should be treated as women in society. Their experiences will be different, but my experiences will be very different to yours.
My husband is a biological man ... can he have the same access and additional entitlements that you believe a TW should have?
tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 07/02/2022 13:47

@twomumsonebump

Transphobic adjective Having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people.

Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Y'all are just transphobic but won't admit to it.

Please do point out where this has happened.

Challenging or questioning something doesn't make one discriminatory or mean that one dislikes something. Also, believing in biology over forces compelled speech and beliefs also doesn't meet that criteria.

DdraigGoch · 06/02/2022 00:36

@DrSbaitso

But some people say that they do, and who am I to tell them how they feel?

Woman is not a feeling. The state of being female cannot be identified in or out of.

If it could, I'm sure all female rape victims would identify out of it to prevent the attack. I'd identify out of my birth injuries.

On that note, it has been mentioned before that a transman (i.e. biologically female) was raped. They said to their attacker "but you can't rape me, I'm a man". Needless to say, that didn't stop him. A terrible demonstration that you really cannot identify your way out of oppression.
EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn · 05/02/2022 23:10

@LondonWolf

I think children are being used to sanitise AGP in mainly middle aged men.
I agree.
tmc7419 · 05/02/2022 18:30

An honest conversation on the matter seems to be very hard to have on the subject. When real concern and genuine fear from women is treated as hate then, well I don't know, but it's a strange time right now.

LondonWolf · 05/02/2022 18:19

I think children are being used to sanitise AGP in
mainly middle aged men.

tmc7419 · 05/02/2022 18:09

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Goatsaregreat · 05/02/2022 17:48

Cracking post Artichokeleaves

334bu · 05/02/2022 17:36

What Artichoke said 👏👏👏

Whatsnewpussyhat · 05/02/2022 17:28

AGP has zero prevalence amongst teenage females suffering from dysphoria.

We can't discuss it for obvious reasons.

Artichokeleaves · 05/02/2022 16:38

*To be very clear, when I mention rape I am specifically referring to the known rape and sexual assaults within women's prisons. I could also mention the assaults in toilets and incidents such as the assault of Maria Mclaughlan however.

Artichokeleaves · 05/02/2022 16:36

But I refuse to believe all transwomen are like this. I question the motives of the posters who assert that transwomen need to trample on women's boundaries.

The thing is, I would be absolutely delighted to see evidence of this. I would be delighted to see TQ+ charities such as Stonewall sharing outrage at the rape of women by TW and insisting that this is not part of their belief or movement and helping to support those women and find other ways. I would be over the moon to see TW voicing that female people who cannot access mixed sex spaces must not be excluded or subordinated to TQ+ need and female only spaces must be provided for alongside TQ+ needs being met, and TQ+ people should respect that female people have needs too.

I could go read happier stuff and not have to spend so much time frantically fighting for women's rights, against every new initiative and attempt to rip them away for the benefit of male people. It would mean the world if this was an actually inclusive movement and TW were out there helping make this work for all of us, and make this a happy, positive thing instead of a nightmare.

But other than the occasional lone voice - who are viciously attacked by the TQ+ lobby - and those voices are also not supporting female need but their own need and often the interest as demonstrated on many threads here, is on getting females to draw the line to include that particular poster rather than about care for female issues. It's beyond clear: TW may identify as women as a class but the TW movement has zero interest or care for females as a class, there is damn all sisterhood. Rape threats, death threats, rage, dismissal, derogation, silencing, lying and misleading, excluding.....? I can find all that behaviour daily, in floods, it's everywhere.

So no, I will not apologise for being exhausted, angered, and having pattern recognition skills. If these people exist it's up to them to try and do something now, drastic, to reverse the appalling optics and harm that the TQ+ political lobby has done in relations with women. It's not the job of biological females to do the extra leg work for everyone else as some kind of birthright.

Giraffesandbottoms · 05/02/2022 16:32

The main motivation for most things seem to be sex and money - AGP makes sense to me!

TheKeatingFive · 05/02/2022 16:26

Well thanks for alerting me, very interesting

Rheopecticfluid · 05/02/2022 16:10

Goodness knows why there is a ban on discussing AGP. I guess it's just way too revealing. Sweep it all away and hide it. Plenty of info out there on t'internet anyway.