Dare I ask - the trans issue?

[quote Gosports]@No1MummyJacky you’re taking the mickey, right? Please say you are, no one could say that with a straight face.[/quote]
Posters will note that No1MummyJacky's posts have now been deleted. The account has been banned after being reported as a troll.

Don't worry though, for the benefit of the lurkers the text lives on in the quotes.

Mumisntmyrealname - you're really not that well read on this issue, are you?

Terrific bit of mansplaining, by the way.

Bleeding Nora what a dramatic intervention I shall bring out the fainting couch

Meanwhile back in reality as a wise person said (I paraphrase) ‘dress as you want, love who you want, but you can’t change sex’

I’m saying don’t cast them aside.

Your intellectual dishonesty won't fly here. Not even when it's in the shape of emotionally manipulative and entirely false implication. You don't fool us and we are not cowing to your dishonest emotional blackmail.

Nobody here has said anything about "casting TW aside", whatever that means. You can attempt to imply it, though overly emotive language, but it's no better than than a lie.

What you actually want is to cast women aside, out of their sports, out of their protected spaces, out of their rape crisis centres, and mawkishly suggest that they are the villains if they don't comply. It won't fly. We see you.

Not one of you can point to anything JKR has said that is anti-trans. Not one of you can explain how allowing intact male people into women's sports, prisons, changing rooms and protected spaces on nothing more than their word, no legal process whatsoever, wouldn't be wide open to terrible abuse that has already happened and deny women their own chances. Not one of you sees anything wrong with excluding women when limited spaces on, say, a sports team go to natal males with an overwhelming physical advantage.

And you have the utter fucking chutzpah to come on here, wide-eyed and sanctimonious, and pretend that you're just casting your pearls among us to plead with us to be better people.

It won't fly here. We see you.

I feel like you don’t want to accept trans people,
Not into single-sex spaces intended for the opposite sex, no. Anywhere else is fine.

so I don’t care anymore.
Are you flouncing off with your screenshots now.

Your trying to find fault and only arguing.
If no one ever found fault in anything, Galileo would never have invented modern science.

Live your sad existence.

@No1mummyjacky is right.
No, toddlers rarely are right when they disagree with adults.

You guys are just trolls
DARVO

[quote VestofAbsurdity]@DialSquare one with delusions of grandeur it would seem and how quickly they all resort to insults proves conclusively that they have no argument and zero evidence.[/quote]
Yep. The calibre of the opposition is pretty shit if you ask me.

I feel like you don’t want to accept trans people, so I don’t care anymore

Ah.

So 'accept' does mean 'unconditionally subordinate yourselves to TQ+ needs and shut up'.

You seem remarkably close minded and unable to understand what is being said here for a professional with expertise in human social behaviour and presumably some understanding of the specific sex based vulnerabilities of females.

I’m saying don’t cast them aside.

Again with the religious overtones, and that's a bit over the top drama wise isn't it?

This is a women's rights forum. Women have needs and rights too. There is a conflict, and currently it is female people who are the ones excluded, arrested, bullied out of jobs and threatened with rape and death threats.

Try a bit of turn the other cheek and love thy neighbour on Stonewall perhaps? There are ways to achieve this perfectly happily. It involves the TQ+ political lobby developing some respect for females and tolerance that female need cannot be sacrificed to their greater importance. Or that it doesn't matter if some females get raped or harmed or excluded.

I’m not going to give you an essay on basic human decency,
Good, your time would be better spent sending an essay on basic human decency to the managers of the rape crisis centre in Brighton.

This is used to diagnose mental disorders, while I disagree that gender dysphoria is a “disorder” it does exist, natal men do want to be woman.
No one on here denies that gender dysphoria exists (see, you really need to educate yourself about your audience before coming to tell us what we think). But there is no requirement for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria in order to access spaces otherwise denied. Self-ID (by the back door) has resulted in males being able to use the magic words "I am a woman" in order to waltz into spaces where traumatized victims of male violence are trying to recover.

I’m saying don’t cast them aside.
I have never treated a transwoman any different to any other acquaintance. "Good morning, how was your trip into town? Lovely weather..." That doesn't mean that there aren't places where sex matters. There are many transwomen who respect that sex matters, and wouldn't dream of trying to invade a space where males are not wanted. Sadly they get shouted down by the intolerant minority and the large army of hangers-on.

I feel like you don’t want to accept trans people, so I don’t care anymore

Your first post was 19.07 ……thats a massive change in less than 30 minutes

No stamina

@DialSquare one with delusions of grandeur it would seem and how quickly they all resort to insults proves conclusively that they have no argument and zero evidence.

To comment on a couple of other pieces of your post:

I find the requirement to 'love' and feel a duty to help a bit odd and inappropriate. We're talking about humans, not pet kittens, there's a patronising assumption there that makes me uncomfortable.

There is also a quasi religious quality and rather a heavy lump of sexism - it is not the birth right of biological women to selflessly nurture male people in need. Having a vagina does not equate with being Florence Nightingale.

Love is also in healthy terms - which professionally of course you will know - a thing that is reciprocal, with good boundaries and equality. Are you requiring TW to 'love' female people? What requirements of acceptance, tolerance, diversity and inclusion will you exclude there, because permitting some female only refuges and rape crisis centres would probably save the lives of the females currently unable to access them due to the prioritisation of TW. And in some cases the refusal to permit the existence of a female only one even after the TW service users have three different ones on site to choose from. Nothing much 'loving' here really.

I'm not sure 'show a TW you love them! Subordinate and exclude a female today!' really achieves much.

If a natal man genuinely wants to be a woman, it’s our duty to accept her and help her and love her.

No, it isn't my duty to do any of that.

Who are you to be assigning duties anyway?

[quote Mumisntmyrealname]There are minimal risk in letting your child wear a dress, when people believe they should wear trousers.
Thigh highs aren’t drugs. Binders aren’t self harming. NOT letting trans children be themselves leads to more suicides, self harm and abuse.
You thinking like this makes it worst for them, this thinking leads to bullying.
Please rethink what is dangerous to your child. These are uk trans suicide statistics, these are comparable to most places in the states as well if that is applicable

www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/trans_stats.pdf[/quote]
You really shouldn't be throwing about suicide statistics which have throughly been debunked. It's incredibly irresponsible.

The Scottish Government tried it in an official document and had to back down, saying that they were 'using those figures for illustrative purposes'.

Stonewall as an organisation have been shown to 'present the law as they wish it to be, not as it is' (University of Essex report) so I don't think they're a particularly reliable source.

I feel like you don’t want to accept trans people, so I don’t care anymore.
Your trying to find fault and only arguing.
Live your sad existence.
@No1mummyjacky is right.
You guys are just trolls

I’m not going to give you an essay on basic human decency,
But I’ll give you this.

dsm.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.books.9780890425596.dsm14

This is used to diagnose mental disorders, while I disagree that gender dysphoria is a “disorder” it does exist, natal men do want to be woman.

I’m not saying be a therapist to trans woman, I’m saying don’t cast them aside.
Why is that so hard ?

[quote Mumisntmyrealname]There are minimal risk in letting your child wear a dress, when people believe they should wear trousers.
Thigh highs aren’t drugs. Binders aren’t self harming. NOT letting trans children be themselves leads to more suicides, self harm and abuse.
You thinking like this makes it worst for them, this thinking leads to bullying.
Please rethink what is dangerous to your child. These are uk trans suicide statistics, these are comparable to most places in the states as well if that is applicable

www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/trans_stats.pdf[/quote]
@Mumisntmyrealname you are just demonstrating that you haven't even read the thread.

There are minimal risk in letting your child wear a dress, when people believe they should wear trousers.
Who said there was? You won't find anyone here telling you what you can and can't wear, though caricatures are offensive.

Thigh highs aren’t drugs.
I've no idea what you're getting at here, aren't 'thigh highs' a design of footwear? In which case what have they got to do with anything?

Binders aren’t self harming.
They're not quite the same thing as cutting, no. They still do harm to the wearer.

NOT letting trans children be themselves leads to more suicides, self harm and abuse.
Can you provide a source which specifically states whether suicide is actually caused by a failure to affirm?

Please rethink what is dangerous to your child.
'Jessica' Brennan is a danger to children.
'Hannah' Tubbs is a danger to children.
'Katie' Dolatowski is a danger to children.
Drugs prescribed over Skype by Romanian doctors working for GenderGP are a danger to children.

These are WOMEN, the are not MEN.

This is your belief. I respect that you believe it, but I do not share it and I expect the reciprocal respect as I would you to not demand that I repeat there is only one God and I believe in the Father, the son and the holy spirit.

If a natal man genuinely wants to be a woman, it’s our duty to accept her and help her and love her.

Again, this is your belief.

I would appreciate your explaining why helping and loving a male means excluding female people and removing female and sex based rights? Because this would indicate that this male person outweighs the equality of access and inclusion of females. Which is a sex based decision, which really demonstrates that you do not perceive this person as a woman like any other woman, nor do you believe in the need to help and love those in need of additional support.

These people can be loved, appreciated and helped without destroying provision for females and excluding them in the process.

This is

These are WOMEN, the are not MEN
@Mumisntmyrealname please list the things which a transwoman has in common with women, that they don't have in common with men.

it’s our duty to...
No. Women owe men nothing. Women are not support humans.

...but that’s rarer than...
You claim to be a psychologist. I therefore assume that you attended a university. Unless a claim is a generally accepted or observable fact (such as "the Earth is round"), it is customary to provide a source to back up your statement. Please do so.

There are minimal risk in letting your child wear a dress, when people believe they should wear trousers.
Thigh highs aren’t drugs. Binders aren’t self harming. NOT letting trans children be themselves leads to more suicides, self harm and abuse.
You thinking like this makes it worst for them, this thinking leads to bullying.
Please rethink what is dangerous to your child. These are uk trans suicide statistics, these are comparable to most places in the states as well if that is applicable

www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/trans_stats.pdf

@No1MummyJacky we're all desperately waiting for your well-researched views on whether Darren Agee Merager should be able to sit next to a nine year old girl in the women's section of a spa proudly showing off his penis.

But then I look at the post you made on a naming thread an hour ago (which along with the two on this thread makes up your sum total of three posts ever) and I don't expect a sensible response.

This person isn't serious. They've overegged it like the world's worst episode of Bake Off. They just see that it's something we take seriously so they're trying to make a joke of it by lowering the tone with an overtly dumbarse post. And it is indeed stupid, but not for the reasons they think.

Don't encourage him.

As a psychologist, I believe you are mixing up the difference between gender and sex.
Sex is something you are born with and sadly something you cannot change, gender on the other hand is a social concept, this is why different cultures have different ideas of what is masculine and feminine.

Now, if someone who is born a man (a natal male) want to transition to be a woman that is then changing gender. Now I can understand that some women are adverse to accepting trans women,”men have everything, why can they take this from us?”
But that’s not the point. These are WOMEN, the are not MEN. If a natal man genuinely wants to be a woman, it’s our duty to accept her and help her and love her. If a man dresses up as a woman to sexually assault people, that’s a different matter, but that’s rarer than a genuine trans woman. A lot of trans woman deal with the same problems we have AND they have their own as well.

Let’s not make it harder for them girls!!!!!
Lets not oppress woman who deserve our love!!!!