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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Emma Bateman suspended from Green Party.

122 replies

Signalbox · 04/02/2022 14:40

mobile.twitter.com/EmmaBatemanGPW/status/1489607775005155333

Emma Bateman suspended from Green Party.
OP posts:
Signalbox · 04/02/2022 22:06

Well actually they can. It's written into the Equality Act. Of course proportionality and legitimacy have to be established but if they can be then it is legal.

Lol good luck with that one. Excluding women with incorrect opinions from politics, how very progressive.

OP posts:
barleybadminton · 04/02/2022 22:04

Excluding women because they believe that female people exist isn't proportionate or legitimate.

Of course it is, people get slung out of political parties for opposing the party line all the time - look at how Labour treated Militant. The Green Party are an openly trans inclusive political party that recognises trans women as women, that is their democratically agreed position, if you don't hold that position then don't join, simple as.

TheGreatATuin · 04/02/2022 21:57

Excluding women because they believe that female people exist isn't proportionate or legitimate. It's just plain nuts

barleybadminton · 04/02/2022 21:54

@sanluca

Wait, so the Green Party can 'certainly discriminate on the grounds of philosophical belief' as a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim when it comes to membership of their party but women can't do the same when it comes to services, facilities and sports only for the female sex

All animals are equal, right? Who knew George Orwell got it so right...

Well actually they can. It's written into the Equality Act. Of course proportionality and legitimacy have to be established but if they can be then it is legal.
sanluca · 04/02/2022 21:45

Wait, so the Green Party can 'certainly discriminate on the grounds of philosophical belief' as a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim when it comes to membership of their party but women can't do the same when it comes to services, facilities and sports only for the female sex

All animals are equal, right? Who knew George Orwell got it so right...

TheGreatATuin · 04/02/2022 21:21

I'm thinking about the amount of public and unevidenced allegations made by activists on twitter against their political opponents, the denigrating language used about them, as well as public conversations about 'doing something', 'doing what I can', and 'seeing results soon'.

From the Green Party Code of Conduct:

13.Infighting & cliques
13.1 Members should not use criticism to hurt, humiliate or belittle, undermine or otherwise attack someone. 'Attack the argument, not the person' is an approach that should be followed in debating situations.

13.2 Members are entitled to disagree but should not treat others adversely or with discourtesy or open hostility due to political opposition.

13.3 Members should refrain from criticising other Party members publicly, including any situations where non-members may be present. If criticism is felt to be necessary, it should be done sensitively and constructively by those given that responsibility. Criticism should be of actions and behaviour or statements etc., not of the person. Avoid labels, name calling and stigmatising a person.

14.Vexatious or malicious complaints
Making a clearly vexatious or malicious complaint; using a complaint as part of a pattern of harassment; clearly abusing the complaint system to attack a personal enemy or political opponent or another person within the Green Party are all forms of unacceptable behaviour.

TheGreatATuin · 04/02/2022 20:57

On the contrary if a trans woman joined UKIP or the BNP and got slung out for repeatedly speaking out against their trans hostile policies then I would have no sympathy at all.

None of this make sense or is comparative in anyway.

barleybadminton · 04/02/2022 20:43

@NecessaryScene

If you don't like what a party stands for then don't join, it's that simple.

Compare and contrast "advice" given by TRAs with the actions of TRAs... Wink

On the contrary if a trans woman joined UKIP or the BNP and got slung out for repeatedly speaking out against their trans hostile policies then I would have no sympathy at all.
ThatsWhenTheCannibalismStarted · 04/02/2022 20:43

I wish the Greens still cared about the environment

NecessaryScene · 04/02/2022 20:32

If you don't like what a party stands for then don't join, it's that simple.

Compare and contrast "advice" given by TRAs with the actions of TRAs... Wink

barleybadminton · 04/02/2022 20:29

[quote fromorbit]People should not resign. We can fight this. We can go to the ERHC if they keep this sexist nonsense up.

Political parties can't discriminate against protected characteristics in the UK the BNP found this out the hard way in 2010. www.equallyours.org.uk/ehrc-legal-action-against-bnp/[/quote]
Of course they can. They can't discriminate on the grounds of race and rightly so but they can certainly discriminate on the grounds of philosophical belief as a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim. You wouldn't expect the Green Party to allow a climate change denier to be a member for example and the courts would almost certainly back that position. If you don't like what a party stands for then don't join, it's that simple.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 04/02/2022 20:18

I really struggle to understand which part of gender issues are environmental in nature.

Why is the GP so focussed on this?

Sexnotgender · 04/02/2022 19:14

Arseholes.

DoubleYouOhEmAyEn · 04/02/2022 19:09

And here's me thinking the Greens' main concern was the environment. As long as you beleive a man in a dress is an actual woman you're in? Don't beleive and you're a gonner, whilst the earth burns.
Fuck that.

Signalbox · 04/02/2022 19:04

Choosing the lower fee (£10) is completely justified if £25 is too much for you; that's the whole point of staggered fees, imo

I think I'm a bit literal and because they've called it "unwaged" I feel like I'm taking advantage. But really I am a member and I should be able to participate and I can't afford £25.

OP posts:
fromorbit · 04/02/2022 19:01

Remember this assault on Emma is happening before the next set of crucial votes in the Green Spring Conference which the Gender Critical side is on course to win:

"Spring Conference is 4 - 6 March, entirely online and there are important motions to support - Disaffiliation from Stonewall; Ensuring Sex & Gender are Not Conflated. And to oppose - Queerphobia. Cost is £45; £25 low-waged; £10 unwaged. So do attend if you can! And would be great to see you all at Green Party Women events and EGM."

More details:

mailchi.mp/398918b1dbec/what-next-after-election-success

They are trying to drive Gender Critical people out of the Greens before they can vote and move even further forward.

DomesticatedZombie · 04/02/2022 18:56

Signal

'Fees have been set at £40 standard, £25 lower income, £10 unwaged.
There is no set income threshold for the different levels, please choose whichever fee level you feel is appropriate for your situation.'

Choosing the lower fee (£10) is completely justified if £25 is too much for you; that's the whole point of staggered fees, imo.

Signalbox · 04/02/2022 18:41

Did anyone else get an email encouraging them to sign up for the conference. I was put off because the registration fee is £25 and it's a lot of money if you are on a low income (£25 is the lower income fee)

OP posts:
TurquoiseBaubles · 04/02/2022 18:37

Ani's twitter feed is weird. Apart from her attack on Emma, there is practically no response (likes or comments) on any of her tweets. And now she has set up a fundraiser for Women's Aid because "Women & those perceived female have seen violence against them increase recently".

She has, however, retweeted an entire rant by Rachel Collinson (beta) about facism Confused. And, very ironically, a retweet of "Ed Burnham: “I am proud to be standing for the Green Party, who do not tell their councillors how to vote"

Practically nothing about the environment at all.

fromorbit · 04/02/2022 18:30

People should not resign. We can fight this. We can go to the ERHC if they keep this sexist nonsense up.

Political parties can't discriminate against protected characteristics in the UK the BNP found this out the hard way in 2010. www.equallyours.org.uk/ehrc-legal-action-against-bnp/

DomesticatedZombie · 04/02/2022 18:14

@bishophaha

Tempted to join. You try and knock one woman down, 3 more will pop up.
Yes. Emma has lots of support. It's annoying that this person has decided to pursue a vendetta against her because she disagrees with Emma's beliefs, and I think it's probably contrary to party guidelines to make malicious complaints.
WarriorN · 04/02/2022 18:12

Well said by Zoe

ScreamingMeMe · 04/02/2022 18:06

continued

I cannot rule out this act of harassment is racially motivated given he is a person of colour and of the Muslim faith.

I will not give legitimacy to the process to remove Shahrar Ali by participating in it.

This is not a side issue that will go away if we ignore it. It is the single greatest threat to women’s rights today. Whilst The Green Party fails to recognise and adequately uphold the protected characteristic of sex, I cannot give it my support or endorsement.

I call on the leadership of the party to resolve this issue and return to its important work of addressing the Climate Crisis - this is what people expect of you. They look to The Green Party to show leadership on the most urgent issue of our lives and the party is failing them.

ScreamingMeMe · 04/02/2022 18:05

Cllr Zoe Hatch:

@GreenZoeHatch
It is with immense sadness that I have just informed @lizreason
, Green Party chair, that I am resigning my membership of the party. Whilst the party fails to recognise and uphold the protected characteristic of sex I can no longer give it my support or endorsement. See letter:

twitter.com/GreenZoeHatch/status/1489534055314083842?s=20&t=jK-VWQzwZTlypxOr_w8xsA

The Green Party leadership has not made any attempt to listen to feminists and understand how damaging our current policies on trans rights are to women and children.

People look to us as the party of sensible thoughtful politics but when we encourage a culture of no-debate and endorse wholesale acceptance of trans activism without applying reason or balance, we do harm.

Our policies, unchecked, push young people on to a pathway of psychological and physical damage; medical transition leads to sterilisation and sexual dysfunction, causing lifelong suffering. Our young people need us to show we care for their welfare, not their ideology.

Greens who campaign for self-id inadvertently support nefarious individuals, male predators and abusers, by enabling them to access safe spaces for women without limit.

When Greens issue statements against the Equalities and Human Rights Commission they undermine the principles of the Equality Act 2010. They erode the rights of women to organise according to their sex.

Within the Green Party, there is a sustained and organised attack on people who speak out against our misguided policies and their implications. Some members are wary of stating their honest opinions for fear of being branded bigots or transphobes.

In facilitating this culture of bullying and harassment, our leadership bodies are demonstrating that they do not understand how damaging our policies are and why there is an urgent need to revoke them.

As an executive officer of the party, I am now being asked to actively engage in this process of harassment by removing one of our spokespeople. Not only is this wrong on the basis of freedom of speech and the safeguarding issues outlined above,

Somanysocks · 04/02/2022 17:56

I voted Green once in the locals before I realised they were nuts. They came last anyway.