Mumsnet Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

Was it either to shut down the conversation, or, probably more likely, to keep repeating it so that they (the Mps) understand they need to address the issue and not ignore it?

This is an interesting point. MP's are ignoring it or simply using it as a opportunity to smear women who they view as 'transphobes' (or 'rights hoarding dinosaurs' etc etc). As more and more women are realising what's going on, politicians will have to acknowledge that there is a clash of needs/rights or admit that actually, they just don't care about women's rights and at least be honest about that rather than hiding behind 'inclusive' dogma.

Waitwhat - Right, understood, thanks for explaining :)

Artichoke - I'm speaking about this particular webchat, so yes I am addressing women as I assume the majority of the posters were women. I don't get who the "other party" is in this context?

Milady - Once again, I'm not telling anyone how to "do feminism". I've explicitly said I don't understand, have said why I don't understand, have had an explanation from a couple of posters and I'm not arguing it. I don't have to agree with their reason, I simply wanted to know why so that I can understand.

These people serve us, not the other way round.

Was it either to shut down the conversation, or, probably more likely, to keep repeating it so that they (the Mps) understand they need to address the issue and not ignore it?

If any other politician was talking out of both sides of their mouth, people would challenge it.

She don’t get that erish

We have the lived experience

Trans women don’t share that

We are different.

This issue is at the core of women's rights. It cannot be dimissed because politicians don't want to answer it.

However much people scold.

YetAnother - People have indeed answered me and I've acknowledged that. A post brought on another question, or am I only allowed the one? In future shall I just stick my head in the sand when I don't understand something, or is it probably better that I ask questions and try to actually learn something?

Eresh I shouldn't have used the word derailing, that's not what I mean. More "shut down" I guess. Because people agree that there was no point in having the webchat, they didn't expect any answers because they expected/knew that the MPs wouldn't have the same definition as them on what a woman is, so then why bother posting? Was it either to shut down the conversation, or, probably more likely, to keep repeating it so that they (the Mps) understand they need to address the issue and not ignore it?

Deeply sexist. And prejudiced.

Cosmos
I can't be arsed looking to see the actual context of that quote, but it's perfectly reasonable to search a poster's history, in fact MN have provided a handy button to do it at a click. And if you hang about long enough, you will see the range of posters coming in to tell women off for not feministing correctly. Just like, in fact, you are doing.

This issue is at the core of women's rights. It cannot be dimissed because politicians don't want to answer it.

They don't become women, Stella. So tired of this charade. No one treats them like the treat women.

I don't think people wanted to shut down or detail the conversation. I think posters were frustrated that such a fundamental aspect of what was being discussed was being handwaved away as not an issue - it smacks very much of Nicola Sturgeon's statement of 'not valid concerns'. I think posters very much wanted to have the conversation.

Why aren't you directing your ire at the slippery politicians? Do you think we shouldn't ask them questions? Does that extend to Boris Johnson?

Stella creasy on Twitter. Anyone who becomes a women. Just depressing

How is asking politicians to adequately answer a question which is fundamental to the whole issue "derailing"?

People keep answering you, Cosmos - you are the one not listening.

IKeptyoulikeanoaf - Yes, I understand that. So were the repetitive questions designed to shut down/derail the conversation entirely then? This is a genuine question, as I don't understand why people would continue to post if they felt the conversation was going nowhere, can't be discussed as there's a disagreement on what a woman is, etc. Also not directed only to you.

@Cosmoslily it's not a new thing and not just uppity mumsnetters, check out Paxman interviewing Michael Howard and asking the same question 12 times (it's on youtube). If politicians actually answered the actual questions posed to them then we wouldn't have to keep on asking !

Fair enough, but then why continue to post the same questions again and again if you know the conversation wont go anywhere

I don't want to answer for others because I didn't ask the question. But I suspect 2 reasons. The first, Stella and Caroline claimed to want to talk about barriers facing women in politics, so it was important to establish what they meant by women. Words and definitions are important. Secondly I suspect it was asked repeatedly because women are angry, and wanted to make it clear that this was a major stumbling block to discussing the issue. If only one person raised it it would be dismissed as a fringe issue that no one cares about, if a lot of people raise the same issue its harder to ignore

We mean biological women. They mean anyone who wakes up and decides to be a woman, either because that's how they feel or because they're a violent male who spies an easy route in to women's spaces.

I'm not having a discussion about how to help those guys get into politics

Milady - Not in the slightest, that was directed to a poster who searched my name, read my post on an entirely different thread, copied and pasted a part of my post, took it out of context and posted it here to call me out. Could've very easily resulted in posters who hadn't read my entire post and seen what I was actually saying trying to bully me off the page for "trying to tell people how to do feminism when you're not one". That type of crap has no place and isn't about "being kind", that's just quite literally being a bit of a dick.

Pronouns - Fair enough, but then why continue to post the same questions again and again if you know the conversation wont go anywhere? (General you, not specifically you). Just seems like the chance for it to be constructive wasnt given in the first place.

Yeah and they should both review that webchat

There were some great questions like the huge increase in girls identifying out of their sex

Cosmos
"I hope you dont do this to all new posters here, they'll never get into feminism at this rate."

Do you think Feminism is some sort of knitting bee, that recruits members by being nice to them?

Those terrible women fighting for women's rights were terribly rude so I shan't support them fighting for women's rights.

Interesting @littlebrowndog that you say SC is still smarting on twitter. Why don't both these mp's (and others) come and have the conversation with us on MN instead of snarking about us on twitter ? They would certainly learn something.