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Mumsnet Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

609 replies

Bosky · 31/01/2022 11:56

Anyone got any questions for Stella and Caroline? Smile

Go to:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/4468388-Webchat-about-women-mums-in-politics-with-Stella-Creasy-and-Caroline-Nokes-1st-February

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9
Artichokeleaves · 01/02/2022 17:05

Either 'be kind' includes the females this agenda want to exclude and harm - and lets talk about kindness to the woman here who cannot access a rape crisis service, the woman who slept rough for months because she couldn't access a refuge, the women with kids who can't go on school trips and won't use toilets -

or it means 'pander to males'.

Which is it?

Artichokeleaves · 01/02/2022 17:03

the fact that this webchat went to from TWAW to be kind to we're deleting any post about trans issues has actually shocked me.

When you come to a webchat of women politicians, with women on a women's forum, to specifically talk about women's issues - and lets be honest women here means female and we all know it, it's specific to the issues of the half the population born biologically female and female is bloody diverse enough as a group - and the only way to deal with controlling the situation is to silence those women on the main issue they wish to talk about, to literally delete and remove their voices to control the narrative?

There is a huge, huge problem. And it's not going away is it? Journalists, MPs, activists, take note. It is not going away . Ignoring this is not making it smell any less, it is not going to end with women just giving up, shutting up and accepting the roll back on their rights.

TheElementsSong · 01/02/2022 17:01

"Be kind" is a though-terminating cliché that can FOTTFSOFAWIGTFOSM.

Waitwhat23 · 01/02/2022 16:58

@MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking I had a look at the tweets and what I was struck by was the poor arguments/statements made by people obviously used to a medium which has a limited word count. There's no depth of discussion or attempts to evaluate things - it's all sound bites and handwringing. I suppose that's why the regular drop in scolders do so badly here - they're not used to actually explaining their viewpoints in detail and actually backing up things with evidence.

Artichokeleaves · 01/02/2022 16:57

@Foxxinsoxx

I usually just lurk but I was dumbfounded by SC saying “What sex based rights do you think are not protected? There is a lot of heat and not a lot of light about what impact changes such as GRC would make etc and so genuinely open to understanding what rights these 'take away' as opposed to extend?"

Is she seriously saying she hasn’t engaged with or understood the arguments AT ALL???

Theresa May's comment yesterday comes to mind.

Is this stupidity?

Or dishonesty.

Because females having single sex spaces, and males being welcomed into female spaces at will cannot exist at one and the same time . And some females cannot access mixed sex spaces, which they are if males are present , and to exclude females from female only spaces to make males happy is unacceptably exclusionary, discriminatory and sexist to the point of male supremacism.

A child could understand this.

DazzlePaintedBattlePants · 01/02/2022 16:56

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Franca123 · 01/02/2022 16:56

Seems we're no longer allowed to criticise elected MPs on mumsnet. I guess we should know our place as women and 'be kind'. This place is toxic.

Enough4me · 01/02/2022 16:56

I missed this thread and started another, but this one is linked into it now so will bump this thread.

All feeling fed up on the other thread too and do not wish to be kind aka STFU.

(Other thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4469694-Webchat-Stella-Creasy-and-Caroline-Nokes?watched=1&msgid=114736223#114736223)

RavensburgerPuzzle · 01/02/2022 16:55

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IKeptYouLikeAnOath · 01/02/2022 16:46

@MalagaNights

Even though I expected it, I am still floored, & disbelieving, and left with a hollow depressed feeling when I'm faced again with the reality that we have politicians, who claim to speak for women, who will not define a women as an adult human female.

The reality of this, still leaves me reeling, & has fundamentally & permanently altered my view of the world and people.

Share this feeling 100%. Some days are harder to take than others, and the fact that this webchat went to from TWAW to be kind to we're deleting any post about trans issues has actually shocked me. Fuck knows why but sometimes the absolute deletion of women is so clearly drawn that it shocks all over again.
MidCenturyClegs · 01/02/2022 16:46

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MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 01/02/2022 16:44

@Eve

you are all trending on twitter!! Smile
I've just been having a look. It's the usual, blah blah they're all daily mail, cliquey, bigot right wing mummies who gives a fuck what they think they've all been radicalised, they're obsessed it's all they talk about blah blah blah.

Yeah, they WISH we wouldn't talk about it. They WISH we'd all just shut up and let the men identify themselves into womanhood and not make such a bloody fuss.
They WISH we'd all stop "being obsessed" AKA opening people's eyes, every day, to what's really going on, the end of women as a sex class and they thought they could sneak it in and we wouldn't notice or be too polite to say anything until it was too late.

Nope. Ain't happening. I couldn't give a shiny shite what they call us on twitter. I hope Stella and Caroline are having a good hard look at themselves, what they're representing and what the very women they're trying to appeal to really think of them when they push this 'anyone can be a woman' bullshit.

vera99 · 01/02/2022 16:23

Yeah came here from twitter been trending most of the day.

twitter.com/search?q=Mumsnet&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

Waitwhat23 · 01/02/2022 16:22

@Doobeedoobee that was a really strange thread. I actually had to double check what board I was on because I was so surprised at the posts.

Doobeedoobee · 01/02/2022 16:19

Did anyone else think the pubic hair thread (with lots of traffic, now seemingly disappeared from this board) was a conveniently timed distraction??

Franca123 · 01/02/2022 16:13

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AlwaysTawnyOwl · 01/02/2022 16:10

I honestly couldn’t be bothered knowing these two. Their position on trans doesn’t make sense and they refuse to answer any questions trying to get at the truth. For example, Stonewall define ‘Gender’ as a social construct usually called masculine or feminine which is ‘assumed from sex ‘assigned’ at birth. Gender Identity is defined as ‘ A person’s innate sense of their own gender, whether male, female or non binary’. Note the word slippage - gender is masculine but gender identity is male and vice versa.

So - by definition- a female who isn’t conventionally feminine and doesn’t feel very feminine is now a transman. A man who isn’t conventionally masculine is a woman. This is of course why they try to ‘trans’ Joan of Arc - she is no longer a woman breaking the boundaries and limitations of being a woman in her time, but ‘really’ a man. It’s about nothing but sexist limiting stereotypes - any woman throwing off the restrictive assumptions attached to her sex isn’t a woman showing what women can do but a man accidentally born in the ‘wrong’ body.

Awkward questions about Eddie Izzard, Philip/Pips Bunce are simply ignored because they ask the difficult questions that neither Caroline nor Stella want to answer - at what point, if any, should a male sex person be considered ‘a woman’? And if Eddie is a woman, then what IS a woman? And does this mean that any man who puts on a dress and lipstick is now a woman too? Because if not, then what’s the difference between Eddie and any other man with a different presentation? And are clothes and makeup the definition of being a woman?

Neither Caroline nor Stella seem able to think through the conceptual issues or what they mean and any question about practical out working of gender ideology is simply waived away. It’s beyond disappointing.

Thank God for Richard Dawkins who recently described gender identity ideology as ‘ludicrous’. Indeed.

Hecalledmecarrots · 01/02/2022 16:03

Be kind!
Raise the level of debate!
What sex-based rights do you not think are being protected?

Responses from female MPs, on a Mumsnet Webchat, about how to engage more women in politics.

There is no hope 😐

ScribblingPixie · 01/02/2022 16:01

I just read the thread through and it made me really emotional. There are some amazing, passionate women on Mumsnet who asked fantastic questions that were either answered weakly, insultingly or inadequately. We deserve better politicians. Way, way better.

Eve · 01/02/2022 16:00

you are all trending on twitter!! Smile

DownWhichOfLate · 01/02/2022 15:59

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Franca123 · 01/02/2022 15:58

'Be kind' made me flip my lid. Total waste of time to discuss women's rights with people who think anyone can be a woman. Hope they both lose their seat at the next election.

MalagaNights · 01/02/2022 15:53

Even though I expected it, I am still floored,

& disbelieving, and left with a hollow depressed feeling when I'm faced again with the reality that we have politicians, who claim to speak for women, who will not define a women as an adult human female.

The reality of this, still leaves me reeling, & has fundamentally & permanently altered my view of the world and people.

RoyalCorgi · 01/02/2022 15:47

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OvaHere · 01/02/2022 15:32

This sounds like the usual predictable shitshow. Glad I didn't bother in the end.

Zero point engaging with politicians who cling to the insistence they don't know what a woman is. Their policies will have no coherent definition and will no doubt act as trojan horses to get those incoherent definitions into legislation.

Shame they can't figure out the intention of those lobby groups that stalk the corridors of power.

It's quite incredible that CN seems to think recognising women as a distinct sex class is playing into the hands of the patriarchy. Just for the record Caroline, I think the patriarchy is probably pretty chuffed at your efforts so far. Thanks to politicians like yourself women have nothing now that can't be hijacked, stolen or appropriated by men for their own ends.

Swipe left for the next trending thread