Mumsnet Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

It all comes back to the fact that the barriers to TW in politics are totally different from the barriers to Women in politics. So they should be discussed separately too.
or Open up the discussion to be how to get more diverse MPs apart from middle aged straight, non disabled, NT, white men

Debate means actually permitting people to voice things that you don't want to hear.

Well that was a complete waste of time. So infuriating.

I did like this post from @jeaux90

I'm so angry that as a tax payer the system doesn't work for me, the police, the legal system etc.

As half the population whose tax bill doesn't discriminate based on my sex why is it that women and girls get substandard service when it comes down to policing and prosecution on VAWG/Rape.

Perhaps we should get a rebate?

Exactly right, the system doesn’t work for us.

Its disappointing to see MP's support putting men in womens prisons, as long as they don't have a previous conviction for a sexual offence.

If they havent grasped the implications of the low conviction rate, and support this policy even after Karen White had to be removed, they are never going to listen to us.

I tried, I really did, to give them the benefit of the doubt. Then I got to

"all women- those born them and those who become them"

and gave up.

[quote Goatsaregreat]While sharing the disappointment, have a look at this article in the Times today:
Take a look at the hundreds of comments and the countless men clearly identifying the dangers to women and speaking knowledgeably about what is happening. It's not just women on here - it's everywhere. People have woken up and are speaking out. It's not going to be hidden again. MPs are going to have to face an increasingly angry electorate about what they've allowed to happen:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ca255c4a-8294-11ec-b939-57ea9f594ba1?shareToken=522352b42ad1dd7805212f3a0adbff2c[/quote]
Just bumping this. Mumsnet is not the only place where people can see the Emperor has no clothes.

Very disappointing that on a topic supposedly about supporting women, when women are talking intelligently and calmly about protecting sex-based rights, our MPs respond by telling those women off for "shouting" and telling them to shut up and "be kind". Ironically misogynistic.

And on top of that even suggesting that women's rights are not at risk in the first place!

I wonder how different the discussion would have been about 'women in politics' if they had just said 'for the purposes of having a useful debate we will take women to mean anyone born female'.

To be honest, I don't know what MN HQ expected. Either they expected what happened, and actually this is all part of a cunning plan to make MPs and others realise that women's sex based provisions need protecting, or ... what?

@Eve

you are all trending on twitter!!

Some US and Candian twitterers with blue ticks and 79,000 bot followers, who don't understand the UK context let alone the Scottish one, and let alone the debate, have accused MN of being a 'radicalisation' portal. A small bunch of people with 85 followers agreed.

They just really hate their mums.

The open safeguarding door is demonstrated here, just in case anyone thinks it is not happening.

These Are Not Our Crimes www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3896235-These-Are-Not-Our-Crimes

Delurk 👍

[quote Goatsaregreat]While sharing the disappointment, have a look at this article in the Times today:
Take a look at the hundreds of comments and the countless men clearly identifying the dangers to women and speaking knowledgeably about what is happening. It's not just women on here - it's everywhere. People have woken up and are speaking out. It's not going to be hidden again. MPs are going to have to face an increasingly angry electorate about what they've allowed to happen:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ca255c4a-8294-11ec-b939-57ea9f594ba1?shareToken=522352b42ad1dd7805212f3a0adbff2c[/quote]
This stands out from that article:

"The authors of the new paper, due to be published in the journal Frontiers in Global Women’s Health, said that replacing words such as “breastfeeding” with terms such as “lactating parents” risks “reducing protection of the mother-infant [bond]” and “disembodying and undermining breastfeeding”."

And I think that unless MPs are going to stand up and say "we will change the law to remove "sex" as a protected group", whichever party is in power, is going to find that dehumanising us or, indeed, disembodying us, will continue to be challenged wherever we see it.

Will any MP stand up and say: "I advocate removing all protections for men and women under the law"? I doubt it. If they don't say it then they've no democratic mandate. If they don't say it and try to sneak it in once in power through sleight of hand policies with the law unchanged - hoping it'll be changed by stealth - then it follows that they will be challenged and they will lose.

We will be watching carefully and, as has been indicated here many, many times, voting accordingly.

twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/975437024038739968

I'd be concerned for any child who thought it was appropriate to masturbate in view of someone else without their consent, and the impact that could have on the person viewing. Peer on peer sexual assault v serious and underreported in schools. need to change that.

No comment on the fact that it was a boy masturbating in a girls' changing room and the easiest way to 'change that' would be to have single sex changing rooms.

we need to raise the level of debate.
Anyone have a clue what this means or how we reach politicians when talking directly to them just results in us being fobbed off?

Thank you Justine. And you're right they did tell us what they think, and we will remember.

Twitter user 'I would rather face 4chan than mumsnet' 😂

Meanwhile, for the lurkers who have popped over to check out this 'hotbed of radicalisation', you only need to know one thing.

We, as natal born women, will safeguard our children and each other (including women who don't agree with us) for as long as it takes for society to wake up and realise that it has opened the safeguarding door. We will fight while we wait. We know how to do this, because we have extensive experience of protecting ourselves and our children from predatory men, so we can see, quite clearly, that this open door will allow the predators in. In fact it already has.

This open door does no one any favours: not transwomen who aren't predators, and not women and children.

If that makes us a radical hotbed,of vipers then so be it.

Leaving this here for anyone who hasn't already seen it.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2018/05/demonisation-mumsnet-just-latest-incarnation-witch-hunting

Oooh, I’ve had a post deleted. I feel like I am finally one of the Cool Girls 😄. I’ll try paraphrasing what I posted and see if that stands.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them. Some politicians have just shown us who they are.

Can I say that???

The 'be kind' and 'let's raise the level of debate' comments were infuriating. Raise the level of debate? You won't bloody have the debate! How dare they answer perfectly reasonable questions with 'be kind'? It's so patronising.

It is a perfect demonstration of the contempt that so many politicians have for ordinary people.

It's also a great demonstration of stupidity. A canny politician would have looked at that chat and seen exactly what they need to do to get the vast majority of women's votes.

These politicians seem to have forgotten that their job is to represent us - not to 'educate us' in how to be fucking kind.

While sharing the disappointment, have a look at this article in the Times today:
Take a look at the hundreds of comments and the countless men clearly identifying the dangers to women and speaking knowledgeably about what is happening. It's not just women on here - it's everywhere. People have woken up and are speaking out. It's not going to be hidden again. MPs are going to have to face an increasingly angry electorate about what they've allowed to happen:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ca255c4a-8294-11ec-b939-57ea9f594ba1?shareToken=522352b42ad1dd7805212f3a0adbff2c

Wow, saw Mumsnet was trending on Twitter and had a look.

I know we're 4chan for terfs and have links with Kiwi Farms apparently. It's the only thing about the webchat that's raised a smile.

They said they support all women including TW, but didn't define women. I would like to know if they genuinely think women can have a penis and be sexually attracted to women.

Wow, saw Mumsnet was trending on Twitter and had a look.

Did they really not answer the question of 'what is a woman' on a webchat about women in politics? Are people really not seeing it, or are they just putting their fingers in their ears and closing their eyes?

So much 'it's a cess pit of radicalisation' crap on Twitter. They are desperate for women to just shut the fuck up about this issue and hope that it just goes away......