Mumsnet Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

Just re read that web chat as I got so angry

So many great questions from women

Hope them 2 policticans go back and read it

And I am still disappointed by nokes. That wasn’t deleted 💪

Helen Stanisland used 'cock' in a variation of her question a couple of days ago. It provoked quite the reaction from men of many genders. That woman has ovaries of steel and I 💚🤍💜 her.

Trying to look at it from their POV, I can sort of see where they’re coming from, in their version of things.

Something like - We want to talk about all this amazing stuff we’re doing/want to do to improve things for women in politics and all you want to do is go on and on and on about this one topic, which just stops us talking about all the other really interesting and exciting things! It’s such an unreasonable thing to do and it just makes you look obsessive. And unkind. (Of course.)

What they don’t seem to get is that for us, we’re trying to shout that THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE - and they are just talking about repositioning the furniture. Yes, it’s a great idea to change the furniture round so it serves women better, but THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE!

And if you/we don’t attend to the fire, all the bloody furniture is going to be burnt to a crisp anyway, on a lovely bonfire of all our sex-based rights.

That webchat, like so many others, was just Nero fiddling while Rome burnt, all over again.

I feel like the OP on the current sex denialism thread - it’s just so insane that these intelligent, powerful, educated women are so in thrall to this nonsense. And so insulting when they trot out their meaningless platitudes about including “all women” and less heat, more light etc.

Of course there’s bloody heat. The house is on bloody fire. And YOU’RE actively engaged in stoking it.

FFS.

'I would rather face 4chan than mumsnet'

Crikey. Who knew a few quavery-voiced old wims and their many hand knitted socks could strike fear into the heart of grown men?

As for 'raise the level of debate' - I think this means they want us to stop talking about penises popping up in changing rooms. We're supposed to avert our eyes like naice girls and pretend nothing's happening.

One friend has told me she was live banned today on the web chat.

Having posted and seen the post about deletions I copied it so I’m reposting it here, because why not:

I think it is really important to focus on this being a chat about how we get more women involved in public life. I want that to be all women, natal women, transwomen, and those who self-identify and do not yet (or perhaps ever) have a GRC.



I’m surprised at this seeing as there doesn’t seem to be any issue with under-representation in politics of biologically male people who identify as trans/NB, especially in local politics. 

Given the tiny percentage of trans people in the population, of which the biologically male ones are not the whole group but a sub group, there are already quite a few well known names of those who are or have been in some form of public office - Gregor Murray, Sarah Brown, Heather Peto, Owen Hurcum, Edward Lord are just a few I can name off the top of my head. Not forgetting LP former “women’s officer” L Madigan.



In the US, there are many more, including a member of Biden’s administration, and the one who had a prominent bulge in the clinging dress chosen to wear on stage.



OTOH I can’t name a single biologically female trans person who has held or currently holds any equivalent public office. Just a couple who are in the news for having given birth.



Surely it would make more sense to campaign for greater representation for female people, however they identify, and leave male people to manage their own interests, as they seem to be really quite proficient at doing that already? 



After all, no biologically male people face the twin challenges of female biology/reproductive role, and female socialisation, as women do, even if they “identify as” women. In fact I’m at a loss to see exactly what they share with us beyond our common humanity, shared with all other male people too, and therefore why you would put us in a common grouping.



The radical changes pushed through the world over at the behest of the trans rights movement, in stark contrast to the decades-long slog to get any semblance of parity for women, with issues like childcare and child maintenance non-payment which women are making virtually no headway on, seem to suggest that this is not a group lacking in political power at all.

But then who will give a shit about your maternity leave, Stella.

Try not to completely alienate the female electorate generally.

From their language I got the impression that they wouldn't mind that much if there were no "women born women" in politics and only "those women who become women"

I would love to hear from male politicians discussing how THEY can make the political arena less misogynistic and female friendly. Why is the onus always on women to fight for equality?

Saw Mumsnet was trending on Twitter and came over to raise a glass to all you fabulous women who are asking the right questions 🥂

I think it is really important to focus on this being a chat about how we get more women involved in public life. I want that to be all women, natal women, transwomen, and those who self-identify and do not yet (or perhaps ever) have a GRC.

In her mind there seems to be a distinction between a 'transwoman' and someone who 'self-identifies' and doesn't have a GRC.

But 'raise the level of debate'

Is that a euphemism for 'educate yourselves'? Or simply saying 'I think i am intellectually superior to you'?

Im curious, as to how I could raise my political game and debating skills better. I thought I was fairly able at that.

It does show this looking down the nose and the plebs attitude doesn't it?

Interesting from Justine on neither MP being able to say what a woman is I don't think they did refuse did they. you just didn't agree with them... Agreement wasn't required. It's an easy question with a straight factual answer, adult human female. Which means that 2 MPs were somehow happy to go on record as being completely wrong on the most fundamentally basic fact of human biology. Do they deserve their seats after this display of total, embarrassing foolishness? I don't think they do. It is a joke.

I dunno, stop politics looking like an old boys club or nepotistic because that puts people off.

'How do we get more women into politics?' says Stella Creasy who is degree educated in politics at Cambridge and a career politician.

I dunno, maybe think about grass roots activism and value it and maybe develop apprenticeships for kids who perhaps aren't so academic, but are interested in politics or have active return to work schemes for all parties.

And complete ignore the elephant in the room about giving birth itself and just talk about childcare.

And do a lot more about general work / home life balances - we should be looking at things like dual ticket candidates for a constituency so you have two people who can represent the constituency on a more part time business.

Do more to get rid of patronising old blokes who crush women at local level before they even decide to stand.

Maybe not ostracise and isolate women who are gender critical. Theres some cracking grass roots activists who be brilliant in politics but are too busy dealling with all manner of vexatious court cases and harassment in their workplace. Instead they are viewed as 'the wrong type of woman'.

Try not to completely alienate the female electorate generally.

Mumsnet is not the only place where people can see the Emperor has no clothes

The Times is ok. A bit of silly censorship by AI bots but it does cover these issues on a regular basis and allows a degree of comment.

Did you notice that Caroline seems to have an odd idea that a "transwoman" (watch that lack of a space, Caroline!) is a person who has a GRC?

I'm surprised we aren't rioting to be honest.

Our taxes (as women) are propping up an entire system that works against us.

We are discriminated against by the police, the court system, social services and the NHS (they don't bother training GP's on menopause even)

So I'm enraged by it.

We went straight from 'no debate' to 'raise the level of debate.' I give up on them. We've never had a seat at this table and we never will.

I simply don't want people 'fighting for my rights' when they are doing so based on the idea that I wear dresses, like sewing and behave kindly. I don't want to be lumped into that group. I am an adult human female. End of. SC and CN do not represent me.

all women- those born them and those who become them

That was a particularly low point.

That was a complete joke. How can you possibly help women if you can’t define what one is.

I don't quite understand how Creasy and Nokes and Laura Bates and all these other professional "I care about women" women who come to do these gaslighting webchats and see first hand how women are ridiculed and insulted for their concerns, can have the level of cognitive dissonance necessary to believe they're the good ones who are fighting for women.