Mumsnet Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

The wriggling baby comment annoyed me too.
Seeing as “women/mums in politics” was being discussed, the definition of what is a woman is pretty pertinent.
(I did wonder if the word “mums” was used rather than “mothers” as “mother” seems to have fallen out of favour. “Birthing people” wouldn’t have gone down well though. But it was probably a nod to Mumsnet.)

'this talk was brigaded by almost everyone except me wanting to talk about other things to what I wanted everyone to talk about'

Again, as an outsider, I can only say the talk did not look at all like the guests were ignoring legitimate concerns, it looked like they were doing their best to carry on in a chat which was clearly being brigaded by a minority group of posters with an agenda, who were determined to make sure there was no room for anything but their pet topic to be discussed.

I don't think women who believe in biological reality are a minority group on Mumsnet.

The subject was 'women and mothers in politics' actually.

Again, as an outsider, I can only say the talk did not look at all like the guests were ignoring legitimate concerns, it looked like they were doing their best to carry on in a chat which was clearly being brigaded by a minority group of posters with an agenda, who were determined to make sure there was no room for anything but their pet topic to be discussed. Hecklers shouting at a stage and congratulating themselves on being a majority after everyone else has got annoyed and left. It also looked like a moderating failure that this was allowed to happen to such an extent.

How very prescient of Private Eye.

I think the pair of them came across dreadfully and were actually hostile in some of their responses.

Their attitude stinks and my takeaway from the debacle was that I found that i disliked them even more than I did at the start.
CN has a chip on her shoulder.

I seriously doubt she had the baby on her lap, but it was her very transparent way of ingratiating herself with the 'Mums'. 🤨

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't come to this "event" to debate and were speaking in broader terms? Thus explaining why they didn't enter into a debate?

It was not a debate event, we were invited to ask them questions about encouraging women into politics. Posters wanted to know if we were all talking about the same type of woman. For many MNetters that means adult human female, for Stella and Caroline it means anyone who says they are a woman. How can women be equally represented if anyone who claims to be a woman is counted as one? Barriers such as lack of maternity leave will continue to be a problem for women but less so for TW.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't come to this "event" to debate and were speaking in broader terms? Thus explaining why they didn't enter into a debate?

What's the aim of this transphobic cult?

To protect children by not watering down safeguarding and making bloody stupid exceptions that will very obviously end in disaster

To not exclude female people from women-only spaces

To in fact have solutions that work for everybody.

I mean, the evil of it. The absolute gall.

At best it will just confirm what they've been told. That MN is a bad place.

Do you think Creasy and Noakes were surprised by the reaction they got?
I wonder wether coming out of the TRA echo chamber to interact with biological women has given them something to ponder.
I’m surprised they came out with the “Be Kind” crap, clearly they haven’t been reading the feminism board or they would have realised that would be shooting themselves in the foot.
I do hope they are reading these comments.

Bwahahaaha....

'Domestic zombie' would make another good Tshirt slogan. Ooh, or an apron.

Women looking down their nose at other women, that's what 'domesticated zombies' was about. Plus it was Sarah Ditum who started it, complaining on Twitter that women who are gender critical know fuck about actual feminism. Or something.

Basically it boiled down to professional feminists moaning that ordinary women had the fucking gall to think they could stand up for their own rights when they has read not a single page of feminist literature., like.... 'I mean we been doing this for years and they have just started and think they can have an opinion?'

Ameanstreakamilewide I never got my head around what all that zombie stuff was about.

RED: 'Its almost as if the expectation is that women shouldn't rock the boat and be difficult.*'
*
Precisely. And they both have adhered to this in their careers to date I suspect, which is why they think we should too.

I am offended by the patronising "be kind' bullshit they espoused yesterday, they misjudged their audience badly.

She's probably a 'domestic zombie', or whatever that rude expression was to denigrate women like her.
Those pesky wives and mothers, eh!

'Be Kind' is a Tshirt slogan for toddlers. (Especially the female kind, funnily enough).

It's not life advice for how to get ahead in politics.

Its funny, Ken Clarke was been caught on camera describing Theresa May as a “bloody difficult woman”, whilst Thatcher was referred to as the Iron Lady.

Terms that were thrown about as insults and an attack.

Yet these two women became PM.

Polls show that the electorate - particularly at the moment - are looking for strong leadership and people who have conviction, credibility and put the public first.

Then we get told by Creasy and Nokes that we should 'Be Kind'. Something here doesn't quite fit.

Its almost as if the expectation is that women shouldn't rock the boat and be difficult. Which is hardly credible. It lacks conviction. Certainly, if you aren't prepared to outright say 'If Izzard wanted to go on an AWS I'd have no problem with that', rather than the usual dodge the question reply so you can play the game of 'both siderism', to avoid losing votes.

At some point, you have to go with your convictions and take a side and then, once you've taken a side either stick to your guns or go, ok fair point we should take that particular issue seriously and I am adjusting my POV as a result. I'd respect that a hell of a lot more, rather than this wishy washy, trying to pretend I have/don't have certain views to avoid offending anyone. Just be bloody straight about it from the word go.

Women are socially not allowed to have opinions. They are frowned on for sticking up for themselves. They are outright ridiculed for refusing to just suck up what they are told they should do.

Yet our two most successful female politicians were the very two who had the biggest reputations for it.

I am not a particular fan of the politics of either, but I can't take Creasy seriously when you think about her in comparison.

As a rule, politicians attempts to identify with the public have a tendacy to backfire. I wonder if holding up your baby in a carrier whilst they wiggle, is the new 'bloke down the pub in white shirt with sleeves rolled up', or 'politician in hard hat and high vi' photo op. Also see, politicians eating ice cream or chips or bacon butties.

And surely we should we be aspiring to be more difficult if we want a career in politics?

What an utterly craven pair they made.

The nerve of them to come here only to insult us like that.