Woman on ward - complains about male patient. Is discharged.

Hospitals don't yet kick people out who are at clinical risk because their nationaility or identity can't be established
Exactly

And if medical staff had decided this woman was trans and placed her on the men's ward and she was abused that's just fine then is it?

////

Er absolutely not. And no ones said that.

I think there is a lot of unclarity around the actual circumstances of admission. People are not regularly being taken up to random wards while unconscious! That's just... not a thing. Of course it's possible to have a discourse with the overwhelming majority of patients.

Personally I think the problem is the enforcement of one ideological position over common sense. It doesn't, imo, make any sense to ask a (fully transitioned) trans woman to be on a men's ward. But equally I think if someone is early in transition then it may make more sense for them to be with their birth sex. It certainly shouldn't ever be the case that other patients are punished!

@barleybadminton how do you think a reasonable policy could actually work in practice? Something that would accommodate everyone.

And any medical professional would easily spot those who gave had surgery (as would women)
This is going down a dodgy road - you seem to be saying it's OK that it's fine for hospitals to undress /and or look at a woman's genitals when there's no medical need to and they're too out of it to notice or object.
To make sure they really are a woman.
Maybe people are OK with that, I don't see how they can be though!

I'm a nurse who's spoken to Gill some about what she's gone through. We underestimate women's trauma enormously. She's been seemingly treated awfully, historically and now. Currently campaigning for nursing and midwifery to stop ignoring biological reality and evidence.

If there are any other nurses, midwives, healthcare professionals let me know- building a large network. We're at sexnotgenderNM on twitter.

Hahahahaha oh lord the utter desperation to suggest a medical professional wouldn’t be able to tell a man from a woman unless they could see a penis

I mean 😂😂😂😂😂

And any medical professional would easily spot those who gave had surgery (as would women)

No they wouldn't, not with any kind of accuracy. But are you suggesting women who appear a bit masculine should have detailed genital inspections before being allocated a hospital ward just in case they are trans?

If someone is that badly ill or injured that their sex cannot be ascertained, they are in a coma and unable to communicate, they probably are not going to be in a single sex ward anyway are they? They will be in a critical care unit.

Not necessarily if they are recovering from a stroke or something. Or just unconscious after emergency surgery. Or autistic or have a mental health condition. There's all kind of reasons people might not be communicative. And even if they can communicate what difference does it make, I thought people objected to self ID so why should medical staff believe them when they tell them their sex?

If they are not resident in Britain then the NHS hospital will need to know their identity before carrying out anything other than emergency treatment in order to charge them for the cost of treatment.

Hospitals don't yet kick people out who are at clinical risk because their nationaility or identity can't be established. And anyway most countries allow trans people to change their ID so that wouldn't change anything anyway.

One weird thing - from the original twitter thread the ward sister and other staff did not respond in the way you'd expect if they knew the patient to be female, and not a trans woman. If they knew she was mistaken, then it would not have gone the way it did. It was gill's telling of it, and it's gone now, but the impression from the medical staff's behaviour towards her doesn't sit right with what we are told now.
Plus, as a PP noted, for it to be '100% verified' would require medical staff to be telling this now, which is also very odd.
All in all, very odd.

Have you still no idea of what can happen to a patient who successfully deceives medical staff as to their sex?

If there are patients without medical records in hospital who are being treated as the opposite sex, they are the most at risk. Do you not give a crisp packet about that?

London hospitals are full of people who aren't from the UK, as are hospitals in many other big cities. Not everyone is British you know, even in Britain.

If they are not resident in Britain then the NHS hospital will need to know their identity before carrying out anything other than emergency treatment in order to charge them for the cost of treatment.

Not all trans women have a penis. And some people don't have any medical records, or they are not easily accessible, especially if they are not from the UK.

Vast majority do indeed have a penis.

London hospitals are full of people who aren't from the UK, as are hospitals in many other big cities. Not everyone is British you know, even in Britain
Good point, didn't think of that
Not everyone will be registered with the NHS and with a GP

If you re-read the thread, I'm sure you'll glean the relevance
Yes, just realised that it will be due to NHS

nhs medical records are always available in an nhs hospital. We’re talking about an nhs ward and nhs policy here.

London hospitals are full of people who aren't from the UK, as are hospitals in many other big cities. Not everyone is British you know, even in Britain.

nhs medical records are always available in an nhs hospital
Yes, but surely that depends on whether they know who you are or not?
Eg imagining someone brought in who'd been in an accident, they wouldnt know whose records to pull up.

Caster semanya has a VSD which only males can have

They are not a woman

Encouraged to see examples of ward managers refusing to pander to Transphobia!

Sometimes it can feel like the Transphobic narrative is gaining majority support in the UK Nursing context, given the very vocal Transphobic minority.

Well done to every Nurse supporting Trans rights

That was the reaction of a professor of nursing.

What has whether someone is American or not got to do with anything?
I know I've seen people on here before say they're American.
Or is that only OK to be if you're '' GC? ''
As why does it matter where you're from?
(Obviously not a clue whether Barley is American or not, just not sure what it's got to do with anything)

I assume they will access the patient records, if there are no hospital records they can look to see what Gp they are registered with and find out that way. If the patient cannot communicate who they are or anything else, they will look for ID on the patient and search for medical history from that name, and from any relatives that can be traced. Patients will almost certainly have every part of their body observed at some point by staff. It would be hard to hide a penis.

Not all trans women have a penis. And some people don't have any medical records, or they are not easily accessible, especially if they are not from the UK.