For those who like to declare that "sex work" is empowering

It’s inevitable that Marg will pop up on a prostitution thread to cheerlead for how great prostitution is.

No answer ever for what percentage of women Marg thinks genuinely choose to do it. No compassion ever for those who don’t have the choice. Can’t ever envisage the physical and psychological harm done to women by days, weeks, months, years spent letting strange men penetrate their body (there’s always cam work!)

You pays your money, you makes your choices, eh?

Cross posted with so many of you, soz.

Wow, comparing Uk Punting to AirBnB.

You realise sex workers have the right to refuse service to clients with poor hygiene, and to call the police on anyone abusive to them?

///// Such empathy and compassion from a predictable poster.

FFS like women in this trade can cherry pick their clients and only go for the Richard Gere types.

Jesus Christ.

One thing in that documentary I mentioned a few posts up, is that one of pimps / traffickers is that it was better to do this than drug dealing as the latter required money flow and a distribution network, whilst the former you could just do. It seems as well that the penalty for it is virtually non existent, possibly because if the girl (we are talking 12 year olds here) said that she was there of her own free will then nothing can be done. High rewards : low risk.

In addition these types of client would likely find it difficult to get a booking with other sex workers (they have ways of communicating with each other and share clients to avoid).

They do. Round my way it was called the Bad Dates Book. The shelter workers and women would maintain it. It was full of rapes, robberies, kidnappings, assaults, forced sex acts apart from rape, you name it. The descriptions were sometimes the same but mostly different. Were any of those crimes reported to police? Like fuck they were. I had to stop reading it. It made me hate these men in a way that wasn't healthy. I still had to comfort and help the women though. And hear things from them.

I've worked with prostituted women for decades. I've personally been friends with a few women who worked. The only one who I would call 'happy' and 'consenting' in her work was a dominatrix who never had sex.

And by the way, I know more women who died than who were happy. I don't know a lot of other 'jobs' like that. Happy to decrim the workers. Happy to pursue and punish the Johns to the full extent of the law.

Well if that happened I hope the first thing the sex worker would do is report him for rape.

And what do you think that would achieve?
Your naïveté (bordering on wilful stupidity) is painful to read.

Just watching Sold: Sex Slaves Next Door. On BBC iPlayer. It is harrowing. Pie might claim that this is totally different, but this is fueling what is happening in the UK, it is not possible to separate them. Support 'sex work' support the abuse of children and young women, it is that simple.

Well if that happened I hope the first thing the sex worker would do is report him for rape.

You’re a big fan of the virtues of Punternet, as I recall, Marg. Does reporting a client for rape go down well on there? Given the rape conviction statistics are a risible lows of something like 4%, how often do you think the CPS takes forward a charge for rape against a john?

You’re an absolute joke.

O hai Marg! Like clockwork onto any prostitution thread to try to convince us that men’s sex rights are Wonderful and paid rape is just tickety boo. And still with the same old disingenuous tone, I see!

I don’t see them as selling sex. I see them as being very poorly compensated for rape and/ or bodily injury, after the fact.

Someone did an interesting documentary on this topic, I think it might have been Louis Theroux. In it some of the girls who were sex working while studying at university and claimed to find it ‘empowering’ were actually sexually abused as children. It’s well known that victims of childhood sexual abuse can become highly sexualised as a coping mechanism for their trauma, this narrative is dangerous as it enables the continued exploitation of such vulnerable women, as well as more obvious victims of the industry.

*pornification not pontification

I think many young girls especially are being influenced by our culture to regard presenting themselves as highly sexualised as empowering. Female sexuality obviously can be empowering in many ways, but somehow this has become conflated with the pontification of women and presenting oneself (or literally acting) as a sex object to serve men.

I think the porn industry and capitalism have a lot to answer for as women are being encouraged to view themselves as commodities and the narrative that is pushed (and serves capitalist interests well), is that it is empowering for women. It’s still patriarchal, misogynist bullshit wrapped up in a different guise that would have women believe it’s empowering to objectify themselves.

It’s not progressive at all PIE, or helpful to the vast majority of women and girls who are victims of the industry. Is pushing this narrative worth the damage caused to them? I believe many women who sell sex as they apparently find it ‘empowering’ are also victims themselves of this damaging narrative, as when you scratch a little deeper below the surface there is often some kind of trauma there.

One thing that I always muse about posters like MargaritaPie who make their arguments for “sex work” is what do people like MargaritaPie gain from it? How do posters like Pie benefit from trying to shift society’s view on prostitution? As far as I can see there are only 3 possibilities:

1. that Pie is determined to stick up for the rights on the 0.00001% of women in the sex trade worldwide who have “chosen” to do it, feel empowered to do it, have control over their “clients”, have a safe environment and have the protection of the police and law behind them should something bad happen. The remaining 99.9999% of women don’t matter.

2. that Pie is actually about making sure men always have the right to access a woman’s body whenever they want, and this is more important that those 99+% of women who suffer worldwide.

3. that Pie just enjoys posting contrary beliefs just for the sake of it, because Pie enjoys stirring the pot and the lives of women in the sex trade don’t actually matter to Pie because it’s all just a game.

None are a good look really. But like Pie’s twin barleybadminton, whose posts are very similar, I welcome Pie’s posts and think they’re doing a terrific job, because no one makes their misogyny and that of the “sex work is work” brigade any clearer than those who post repeatedly in its defence.

"So the sources you posted at lies but the sources you posted are the unvarnished truth? Got you"

Read the snopes article, it gives an explanation.

"How many ‘sex workers’ leave 1 reviews after some leery punter has forced her to have sex without a condom with him"*

Well if that happened I hope the first thing the sex worker would do is report him for rape.

What % of sex workers are in a position to pick and choose their clientele?

Should say “so the sources I posted are lies but …”

Freudian slip

"It was reported in both The Telegraph and Der Spiegel"

feministire.com/2015/01/30/happy-tenth-birthday-to-the-telegraphs-brothel-job-hoax/

Despite being a hoax, it's done the rounds on social media and blogs thousands of times as some sort of golden-ticket for prohibitionists.

Nooone has been forced into sex work by a job centre, or being threatened with losing their benefits. It hasn't happened.

I have two daughters. Sex work is not work. It is not something I would talk about with them when discussing careers.

I don't even like the word client when discussing the men using prostitutes. Talk about euphemisms.

I know other people are better placed to talk about consent but surely it is not consent if you have no choice in the 'transaction'.

Wholeheartedly agree with previous poster. If prostitution was work it would need to have clear safe working practices and risk assessments. Pension planning would also need to be in the employment offer.