School trip policies on overnight accommodation for trans children

Actually we'd ve very interested in the answers. Like what would the difference be between that and your dd sharing with her boyfriend.

If I told you I wouldn't steal your car would you give me your keys.

I won't steal your money if you give me your card and PIN.

If you'd decline on that why would you believe the word of someone else who jas the potential to get your dd pregnant

‘ You won't answer the questions because you can't’

Mate - literally, and I mean literally,
Haven’t read them.

Although I’m sure someone will pop along in a no to tell me that they can’t believe I’m too lazy to spend time saving the nations children…

You would be happy

Many parents would not

You won't answer the questions because you can't

Not to mention I just don’t have the time to run point by bloody point down the list
of ‘questions’ or read giant posts today.

‘ I see that Cry has skipped answering the questions asked ’

I generally don’t engage in being asked ‘questions’ by those who I suspect wouldn’t listen to the answers anyway. Wasted everyone’s time.
I have my opinion, others have theirs.
In these circumstances I would be happy to have my DD share a room with a trans girl. Others see it as the first step in the road to hell.
I’ve read most of the thread, my opinions haven’t changed.

Am I understanding this correctly? boundaries are in place to try to prevent sex/ sexual abuse/ allegations of sexual abuse, happening between school children. And there are posters here who think those boundaries should be removed?

Adding these questions again.

Readers can see the lack of thought that is coming from the posters who are supporting 14 year old males being accommodated with 14 year old females.

I can only put it down to lack of thought about the actualities of how this would work, because I don't want to think that those posters are aware of the harms and simply ignore them for the sake of being 'kind' and being 'tolerant'.

1. How has this male child has changed so that for safeguarding purposes they are no longer to be treated as male?

2 What studies and statistics are there to prove that these transitioned males are in anyway safer than other males?

3 How many female students are acceptable collateral damage in the name of this 'progress'? How many girls being harmed is acceptable collateral for this supposedly progressive approach? Please give us a number? 1, 2, 10, 25, 1000?

1. What does a 14 year old girl do in a situation where they get to the room and discover that they are actually NOT ok with the arrangement anymore, but because a group of teachers and parents have decided that it is 'kind' and 'nice' that they have agreed to share a space with a male, that 14 year old girl feels they cannot change their mind?

1. Where does a 14 year old girl go if the worst scenario does happen (and we hope that it doesn't ever happen) and they feel that they have to 'live' with their decision and stay in the same room as their abuser. Because, they agreed to this arrangement?

1. How does ships know that no girl has yet been harmed? How many girls live in a world where their abuse takes a while, sometimes years, to process? Or is ships relying on the new style of activist thought of ‘It doesn’t happen. If it did happen, it was just the once’ and not on the historical evidence that even males supposedly deemed ‘100% safe’ do commit sexual abuse? Including loving and caring ‘friends’ and teenagers.

1. Who exactly benefits from lowering the boundaries that protect all females, but particularly children? Who? The women and children involved? Or the person who wishes access to the spaces that the safeguards are there to protect? Or the people who wish to see those boundaries eroded for other reasons that are harmful for those with lowered boundaries?

What benefit is there to those two female students to believe that in every single instance, that male is now exactly the same as them? What benefit is there to those two female students to believe that the sex of the person never matters?

1. 'On a case by case scenario, how exactly does a safeguarding lead ascertain the sexual function of a 14 year old male without asking very private information that should not have to be asked or disclosed? How is this NOT transphobic to subject this male to this treatment when a blanket policy removes any of this requirement?'

Any takers?

@CrymeaRvr

You don't seem like a stupid person. Instead of stubbornly standing your ground go back and read the posts about safeguarding. Actually read them. Understand what people are sharing with you.

There is nothing bad about being wrong, but it is ridiculous to refuse to change your mind once people have given you the information you need. Safeguarding is not about individual cases, it's about systems that protect the most vulnerable.

I see that Cry has skipped answering the questions asked and doubled down on 'just make a special case in this instance, because [insert kind, nice, good friend, whatever calming nonsense suits].

Maybe they could take the time to answer the questions and assure us that there is some deep thinking behind what has become a mantra for safeguarding and sports.

'The earth is flat'. Difference in opinion or just an incorrect statement? In the face of evidence, someone can keep insisting that the earth is flat and that is their opinion but it doesn't make them less wrong.

There's a definite parallel there between flat earthers and those determined to erode women's and girls rights.

I think opinion implies something for which there is ambiguity , where all facts may not be knowable , or for something personal

So you can have an opinion about the best way to tackle a problem. Or an opinion on what motivates another person

But being wrong is different. 1+1 makes 2 . Getting that wrong isn't a difference of opinion . It's a mistake

Shouldn't apply

Safguarding isn't nor should it ever be based on personal opinion.

Its based on reality which exists regardless of liking or or agreeing with it or thinking there are times it should let apply if u like the bloke

‘ you're wrong. This isn't a difference in opinion -’

Quite literally a difference of opinion. You think one thing, I think the other = difference of opinion.

@CrymeaRvr you're wrong. This isn't a difference in opinion - you fundamentally do not understand the basis of safeguarding and worse, seem determined to stand behind your incorrect viewpoint despite evidence/explanations/examples from those who do understand safeguarding.

@Theeyeballsinthesky is right. There's no point explaining it again to you because at this point it's either willfull ignorance or slavish idealogicalism on your part.

If After 24 pages some posters are still unable to understand that safeguarding does not and never should be carried out on a case by case basis and certainly should not dependent on the judgment of 14 year old children, there is literally no point in explaining it for the 58th time

All these arguments just because you think male and female children should be able to share bedrooms if they want to.

Again if case by case also involves parents unaware or not engaged with parenting then that leaves the children vulnerable.

Safeguarding is there to account for the fact that some parents don't give a shit. To ensure the kids receive equal protection.

Schools have such a tough job as it is without parents not wanting to seem like the ‘bad guy’ about decision they make for their children.
The school have said they manage on a case by case basis and involve the parents.
The parents aren’t happy, for the reasons given, so it’s up to the parents to explain to their own child why they have vetoed the suggested arrangements. Not the school.
And if the parents think they are right then why would they be worried about actually telling their child their reasons?
God knows we tells our DC that they can’t do stuff all the time, regardless of what everyone else’s parents are apparently letting them do or are okay with.

Your dd sounds like a great friend.

Do posters realise that when they are saying this, it reinforces to girls that they should be giving up their rights of safety, privacy and dignity to males? Effectively putting their own needs down the priority list, when those particular needs should be at the top.

I mean this is conditioning in real time for these girls. And we wonder why our girls have issues and wish to identify out of being a woman.

A great friendship is one where both parties can state boundaries expect them to be maintained.

Specifically, what is different about this trip that means it is ok verses other situations?

Would she still be a great friend if she said no?

How can you say school shouldn't have put them in this situation then say its OK?

And why would parents need to give permission? Is there something about the situation that means school keep to pass responsibility for the decision onto someone else so for so they have no come back should it go wrong?

What, besides 4 words, is the difference between this and the other room mates boyfriend also sleeping in the room?