School trip policies on overnight accommodation for trans children

For the person complaining that not all trans people are predators, do you want your bank to take steps to prevent staff fraudulently helping themselves to your money? I work in finance. We happily accept that most of our staff are honest and law abiding. We still perform regular criminal and financial checks, and put controls in place so if anyone attempted fraud etc it would be either stopped at source or detected rapidly. Not one person has ever complained about this, because they like to know that their money is well looked after. If you’re happy that, while it’s a very small risk, we put rules in place to prevent it why would you not be happy with this. It’s a small risk but it is a risk

I'll happily hurt the feelings of 1000+ entitled biological men/boys if it maintains the dignity and boundaries of one girl.

Er the lesbian thing, btw, -

• These young girls all have the same basic anatomy so there's no where near the same awkwardness glimpsing a same sexed naked body compared to say, a penis.

• It's highly, highly unlikely one of these girls could be subject to sexual assault from another female. A biological male child however...

So that argument is all bollocks. And a bit homophobic to conflate the two.

Yup, as others have said, now you need to check your LA's safeguarding policies. They should be online. Check for their policies re transgender pupils - the relevant safeguarding disaster may well be hidden in that document , ie that 'trans' pupils can use the facilities/dormitories of their chosen gender!

As said above, most LA's have been threatened with legal action and forced to withdraw these documents. So if yours still has this nonsense, threaten them with legal action.

You are now That Parent. The safety of so many girls is resting on your shoulders. So no pressure!!

Good luck

So on this occasion OPs DD and her fiend are ok with this (are they all though, really? No peer pressure, #BeKind at play?) as they know the transgirl.

What happens next time if it's someone they aren't friends with or a child new to the school? This time they aren't comfortable. "But girls, you didn't mind when Abby bunked with you so why are you being silly now?".

Safeguarding policy should have NOTHING TO DO WHATSOEVER with hurt feelings.

As a teacher, I am shocked that it has got to this stage. Is transgirl allowed to change in girls changing room for PE or use girls toilet in school? Of course not, measures will have been put in place to protect all parties.
This should not happen as again, everyone needs to be protected. Neither pupils nor parents, cannot and should not be able to make safeguarding decisions for the school.

I think that post was parody, but then again on this thread nothing would surprise me.

The simple question here is "who holds the liability for mixed sex sleeping arrangements on a school trip should something go wrong because the arrangements are mixed sex?"

That will focus everyone's minds pretty damn quick, I should think.

It’s interesting the number of visitors this thread is attracting….,

OP I’d be going pretty nuclear on the school now & taking it to the governors. First of all they offload their statutory safeguarding duties onto 14 year olds Abd then when you point out the massive problem in them doing this, they shift the ‘Blame’ on to you

Is the actual school run by 14 year old as well

I WISH my parents had been given the choice; they are so much easier to manipulate than our teachers.

That last sentence is hilarious. Person who wrote this knows it is not correct for teenagers of the opposite sex to share sleeping arrangements as why else would they want to 'manipulate'? If it was all ok then why would parents or school object, right?

The amount of people who take safeguarding personally or see it as outdated is mindboggling... as if Jimmy Savillen, Epstein, weinstein and the catholic church scandals never happened.

But I do still believe that same-sex spaces do improve safety, and offer a level of privacy that mixed-sex spaces cannot. If this transgirl has to get undressed in front of biological girls, as they would do if sharing a room, would that not be embarrassing for all concerned?

I think take it to the Local Authority or the school governors. Ask about policies on mixed sex sleeping arrangements. If the policy is the children choose then this needs reviewing. I’m a very new school governor but even I know that’s not a safe policy!

*Surely the question to ask the school is whether they would agree to a girl sharing with her non-trans male best mate if they were both happy with that?

And if not, why not?*

Precisely.

The school are making you do their difficult job here so you can be the bad guy and not them.

Besides since when do adults delegate safeguarding to the very same kids they are responsible for safeguarding.

Yes. I always wonder when I see posts like 'at this age they should be able to choose who they want to share a room with'. Really?

Safeguarding is about making sure the worse case scenario is risk assessed. Risk assessment should be able to apply to all future situations. Not 'well we let Sam share a couple of years ago because Sam in nice but April is a bit weird so we won't allow it.'

Besides since when do adults delegate safeguarding to the very same kids they are responsible for safeguarding.

Dd says A is not male

This is why your daughter is too young for this. She doesn't seem to understand the difference between biology and gender identity.

That is a bullshit shifting of responsibility.
Take it to the govenors.

If this is the stance, then why have you never been asked what your position would on mixed sex sleeping arrangements involving a transidentified male child, before it became a reality with real people involved and all those complexities

It would be a very simple thing to do and would save ALOT of accusations of transphobia, and would cover the schools arse when it all goes tits up.

Allowing friends to have a say in who they share rooms seems appropriate at this age. Would you rather she was obliged to share a room with someone of the same sex that she didn't know well and felt more uncomfortable around?

There's a very concerning thread on mumsnet at the moment about serious historic sexual and physical abuse from a 12 year old girl (next door neighbour) towards the 9 year old DD of the poster.

Sex is no guarantee of additional safety, but established friendships which are viewed to be good ones by the adults that know the teenagers are probably more likely to be a protective factor.