School trip policies on overnight accommodation for trans children

their journey

Precisely. Its theirs. Nothing to do with anyone else. They owe then nothing. They have zero responsibility to be a part of it. No one has to consent to that. Nor be forced into complying with it. That's their families job. Nothing to do with anyone else.

Just a reminder of the massive problem of sexual assaults and sexual bullying in schools

www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/b41fb362-6615-4e9b-950e-36859358e023

This isn’t about this particular child it’s about mixed sex sleeping arrangements & whether boys and girls however they identify should be sleeping in rooms together unsupervised

This isnt a 'boy' sharing a room with 2 girls. This is a girl in every sense that matters (2 years i read) who just happens to not quite be at the end of their journey.

What journey is that?

Are we already in the era of Star Trek where a body can be miraculously recreated atom by atom to become the other sex?

This isnt a 'boy' sharing a room with 2 girls. This is a girl in every sense that matters (2 years i read) who just happens to not quite be at the end of their journey. The person probably has less sexual feelings towards your daughters than some of the other girls on the trip.

Do you know this person personally, Qwerty? Is that how you're so sure about their feelings, sexual or otherwise?

On another note - you say they're a girl in "every sense that matters" - what exactly do you mean by that? What is a girl, if not an immature human female?

I have experienced first hand a young person of this age born female transitioning to male. I have witnessed their journey, how the community helped him transition and the many, many difficulties they have had to go through. The way my own daughter (14) and the rest have benefitted from that journey has been immense. One of the most admirable parts has been how accepting the boys have been in making this a less harrowing experience for the person. Thankfully, not one person has brought up any issue about he previously being identified as she.

The school would never allow a male student who "felt like a male" to share a room with a female student who "felt like a female".

So they need to stand firm on this and stop allowing "feelings" to cloud what is basic fact - teens with vaginas and teens with penises shouldn't be sharing rooms on overnight school trips.

End off. Too fucking right I'd be that parent

This isnt a 'boy' sharing a room with 2 girls. This is a girl in every sense that matters

No. It is not.

This is a trans girl, who is of the male sex. That will not ever change. This is a male child with a gender identity of being a girl, and sleeping arrangements are a sex based issue.

Most teenaged boys are lovely. And girls are raped at school every day, including primary schools.

The rule is no mixed sex sleeping arrangements. No one is debating hurling this aside or saying it's no longer necessary (see rapes of girls in school.) So to say that some male children get a special exemption cos...... reasons...... is not ok, and is a safeguarding breach. It isn't difficult.

The children should never have been put in the position of having to decide whether this male child gets to sleep with females or not; it's not proactive inclusion, it singles the child out and makes them vulnerable to their peers, while putting the female children in a very difficult position to stand up for themselves under pressure to put the male child's wishes above their own. It's not good in any direction.

Plus once it is established that male children who wish to can sleep with the female children, what happens when there is a male child the female children emphatically do not want sleeping with them and don't feel safe with? The precedent is there, they'll have no option but to suck it up. This is also, no good, any way you slice it.

Trans children who do not wish to be accomodated with children of their own sex should have an alternative available to them. This does not mean mixed sex sleeping facilities for kids magically becomes ok.

And in a serious case review all fucking hell is going to break loose. Because 'could a reasonable adult have seen this coming?'

Oh yes.

What did you to prevent it?

We crossed our fingers, wished on the magic star and believed that nothing bad could ever happen to us.

And now you're in a position of gross dereliction of duty, and parents suing everything in sight, and Ofsted have gone berserk and put the school in special measures, how is that working out for you?

Is this a pre appearance of the “predatory lesbian” trope TRA are so fond of?

The person probably has less sexual feelings towards your daughters than some of the other girls on the trip.

Sorry what now? Are you trying to suggest that trans girls have less sexual feelings than other males?

Why, oh why, are none of you standing up against this sh*t?

@BedisBliss I did wonder of that was basically the case.

And I note yet another visitor to these parts intent on telling us a teenage boy is a girl cos magic

The school sounds negligent in their safeguarding responsibilities. Let’s not forget there are children and adolescents who have been sexually abused who have poor boundaries and are at risk of exploitation, many of whom are currently flying under the radar and not known to teachers or social services. They might not object to being cajoled into activity which they don’t want as they’ve have been told their whole lives they don’t get a choice and just have to go along with what the other person wants. I worry about those children (and we are talking about children here) in a mixed sex set-up where they already know raising a concern will get them labelled a trouble-maker or cast out of their friendship group. The trans child is not the only child with vulnerabilities in this scenario. Safeguarding keeps every child safe.

Well done for drawing a line OP.

This is a girl in every sense that matters

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I'm all ears to hear exactly what that means.

What's a girl querty

The only sense that matters is how you were born.

Rooms aren't decided on which wears pink skirts.

They won't even legally be female. No under 18s get a GRC. This is a biological and legal male.

Have you actually read any of the comments on this thread? Do you have any experience of education, young people, risk assessment, safeguarding??

I cant believe some of the comments on here. This isnt a 'boy' sharing a room with 2 girls. This is a girl in every sense that matters (2 years i read) who just happens to not quite be at the end of their journey. The person probably has less sexual feelings towards your daughters than some of the other girls on the trip.

Putting aside the fact that your daughter has shown maturity in welcoming the situation i wonder how your daughter feels about your lack of trust in her own standards to worry about something untoward might occur.

By all means make it as safe an environment as possible, but your daughter sounds like she is much more mature than most on here.

It is difficult for schools as the last thing they want is to be accused of being transphobic and there is an expectation for education to be inclusive. Many schools in this case rely on pupils and parents to 'force' the issue so they can absolve themselves of a 'politically incorrect' decision. (Teacher here.)

Sex is no guarantee of additional safety

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Agreed however I think we can all agree that the risk goes through the roof with a male as opposed to a female.

• Are you even remotely aware of how high rates of sexual assaults are in our schools these days? Maybe parents of transgirls should also be reminded of the importance of manners in their child too.

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Some are (as some members of any group or category one cares to name can be dangerous) but lots of teenage boys and young men, let alone trans teenagers of any gender, are sweet, shy, goodhearted and would never harass their friends.

• See in theory this is lovely however safeguarding is based on facts not feelings.

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Sadly the insistence that trans people are a menace is copying the exact pattern of the homophobia of the past - they're all predatory, all evil, all abnormal waaaa!

And this is a crap comparison to make, gender identity is not the same as sexual orientation.

Not really the same, but my son's boyfriend is a trans boy and if the school let them share a room on a school trip, not only would they probably be shagging in it, one of them (the biologically female one!) could end up pregnant. I would not be impressed at the school condoning that even if the parents do.