School trip policies on overnight accommodation for trans children

OP - check online that the LEA toolkit which has been quoted to you in still current, and has not been withdrawn. Google it! Other LEAs have been forced to withdraw that nonsense as being unlawful.

Get onto your LEA, threaten legal action if they do not withdraw this unlawful document...

Sex is no guarantee of additional safety, but established friendships which are viewed to be good ones by the adults that know the teenagers are probably more likely to be a protective factor.

@suggestionsplease1 have you taken leave of your senses? Sex is the key factor in whether an accidental pregnancy is a risk.

Safeguarding:

'case by case' - how do they propose to deal with a situation where they have female children who are keen to have their male friend in their room, and other female children who will not be able to come on the trip if the sleeping accommodation is mixed sex?

What will they do when a clearly unsafe, unsuitable male child wishes to use the precedent already set? Because it will be nearly impossible to say no without it being personal and discriminatory.

How exactly do they intend to justify that this male child is different to the other male children that are absolutely not allowed under any circumstances to sleep with female children? Because when they have a female child who has been harmed by this, they'd better have a watertight reason.

Policy by Stonewall is, frankly, that no one and nothing matters but the child of interest to Stonewall. Stonewall et al merely shrug when women are harmed in the pursuit of providing male people with access to female spaces, they do not care . And that tells you everything you need to know about how subhuman and inferior they regard females of all ages. These policies are not balanced, they are not responsible, they are oblivious to the realities of safeguarding or duty of care equally to all children, and are incompatible with law as has been pointed out many times.

The school are insane if they do not envisage what could go wrong and what will happen when it does. And if it is not in them to care about the children, then perhaps they may care about their own careers and imagine themselves at the wrong end of a serious case review and the national press.

Although again, parents should be aware, from bitter experience, it is likely that much effort and pressure will go into concealing anything that does go wrong. This political lobby is not responsible about that either. They are not a body to place trust in.

I would also say that Baroness Nicholson would probably love to hear about this safeguarding decision by your LEA and your school.

Oh god, your 14 year old is writing you a letter to educate you 😂 I bet you can’t wait.

I’m utterly baffled at the number of adults who seem to lose all ability to think critically around this matter.

How on earth can a school be expected to make decisions on a case by case basis?

How are they expecting to decide who gets to share with girls and who doesn’t without opening a massive can of worms about student’s identities? Are they going to advise parents why their trans child can’t share with opposite sex pupils but another trans child can? How is that workable? Because they’re allowing 14 year old to be ultimately responsible? How is that going to work?

I think when talking to a teen you’ve got go facts, there’s so much pressure to believe and conform you need to take emotion out. I’d go through these with a highlighter and talk to her about the balance of risks.

committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/b41fb362-6615-4e9b-950e-36859358e023

OP,
Take a look at Safe Schools Alliance. They have lots of advice on talking to schools and one of them posts on here @Twofalls is their name I think. They have lots of resources about speaking to schools and safeguarding is what they do. Here's a link to their factsheet on single sex changing:
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/#Single_Sex_Toilets_and_Changing_Facilities_factsheet

I'd check in with dd that she will read a counter letter from you in response to hers and be prepared to "be educated" by it

Just seen your last post - that's what a captured school look like. And what the future is for girls with their needs and rights being at the bottom of the pile.
I'd definitely ask for the complaints procedure and follow it up. Expecting 14 year olds to make decisions about mixed sex sleeping is plain wrong. They want it, then they allocate it and face the consequences. It abdicating professional responsibility.

So sorry to hear that OP. This is a direct result of the school's actions. In addition to forcing the decision onto children they have again avoided all responsibility and are now discussing your discussions with the school with children.
I'd make an urgent appointment with the Head to lay out a formal complaint:

1. The failure to safeguard children by implementing mixed sex sleeping and putting the onus on girls to acquiesce to demands to share bedrooms / bathrooms.
2. Why has your discussion with staff about safeguarding been shared with the children?

Ask for their complaints procedure as the leaking of your safeguarding concerns to children is outrageous, inappropriate, breaches confidentially and potentially dangerous.

Re your daughter - I'd just reassure her that you know she's a lovely caring young women, reiterate that your proud of her for caring about others but reinforce that as an adult you see the big picture and why she might be happy to agree to sharing, girls should not be put in the position of having to agree to this. These need to be adult decisions. And then agree to disagree.

So pleased to see so many adults speaking out - especially parents and teachers. People are waking up to what's being done to children in the name of "inclusion" and it's great to see everyone happy to challenge and not being intimidated.

The job of any safeguarding lead and Health and Safety Officer is to minimise risk.

On school trips particularly, by law, every school must adhere to stringent risk assessment policies and those responsible need to consider every possible risk and put measures in place to prevent these where possible.

Can a male impregnant a female abs have life changing consequences particularly for the female? Yes. Hence we have single sex provisions.

Ask for their Impact Assessment.

Yes Ploppy! I find the idea that girls should accommodate gay boys as “honorary girls” because the straight boys are bullying them as all kinds of wrong! I mean what lessons are we teaching with that?

That girls are support humans for boys
Tjat boys can bully without consequence
That a boy sexually attracted to other boys is somehow a girl?
I mean ffs!

And even if they were, we all know how fickle they can be!

As we've seen from the experiment on female prisoners in prisons; when something inevitably goes wrong and women are sexually assaulted and raped, the political lobby merely shrug and argue it's only a female hurt, it's not like it matters.

Which illustrates the core issue here: that other people have rights too.

As a young teen many years ago I shared many camping trips with girls and was never “touched up”. One sleep over with a male friend and his sister and i was. This pair were my best friends. I never told my parents. He took advantage of the situation. Just one occasion that’s all it took.

I would just put my foot down and tell my child that there will be no sleeping arrangements that could result in pregnancy.

Completely this. I don't have DC, but I am a teacher. Although it hasn't come up yet on any of my school trips, this is the line I would use to say a blanket "no" to supervising any such trip.

That said, the latest iteration of keeping children safe in education explicitly includes peer-on-peer abuse, points out that girls are more likely to be victims and boys more likely to be perpetrators, and requires school staff to minimise the risk of it happening. I'd seriously worry about the competence of any safeguarding lead who would permit mixed sex sleeping arrangements on a school trip.

Trans children should absolutely be able to have different provision to the others of their sex if they wish: this is the respecting of their identity and meeting their need. They are not an exemption to safeguarding

I'm.torn about this tbh

We go on about having their identity etc respected then elevate them to a status others can only dream of. I'm.sure even child would love a private room and private shower etc all this extra expense amd restrictions on where they can go and all this pandering is just going to mean that these trips just don't happen. It's all gonna require extra staff, more expensive insurance. All to avoid , what all the other kids are told on a regular basis, saying no.

Frankly whatever a kid or adult decides to do is up to them. However of its being done on the expectation of others going along with it and special treatment and then it's on the adults around them to ensure that its made clear that it's not theor job to do this nor have they been asked if they even consent. No is not a dirty word.kids are told it all the time every day fir their own good their own safety and because their wants do not trump everyone else's needs.