School trip policies on overnight accommodation for trans children

The objections would be exactly the same if any other non trans identifying male child was being allowed to room share with the girls. But strangely, that isn't being allowed to happen.

‘ It's nothing to do with the pupil's trans status,’

Yeah. Except it’s everything to do with it. The whole discussion is about trans kids and school trips.

OP doesn’t want her daughter sharing with a teenage boy however they identify

Hth

Teen males do not share bedrooms with teen females. And schools should be agreeing with that very very very basic tenet of safeguarding.

You don’t want her to share with a trans girl, so she won’t share with a trans girl. End of.
Many schools have a similar policy.
Your DD thinks you’re unreasonable not letting her share with her trans friend. I see her POV but ultimately she can’t do anything about it.

Does it matter what any of the children’s relationship status is?

Would you ask that of a boy who identified as a boy? Would it be ok if none of them were dating? At 14?

Why would this be different?

It is not personal to have the opinion that females should not share sleeping arrangements with males.

This is not controversial.

‘ I really don't want this to be personal’

But it is,As your daughter was happy to share, genuinely happy to, and you’ve said no.
All the rest about policies and what happen someday, Somewhere else is irrelevant here.
These 3 students are friends and comfortable sharing a room - do you think your DD is in a relationship with the trans kid? Or the other girl?

You know because even if they are trans they may still choose to have sex with biological females. Look at Caitlin jenner. So the pregnancy concern is valid. They’re making judgements about this person’s sexuality, how very bigoted of the school.

I’d be furious at the school. Their inability to make a safe and sensible decision has led to you being called a transphobe and potentially put your dd at risk of fallout by association.

I've been trying to think of something I can say that might be of practical help, op. I'm sorry I don't have any expertise to offer, although thankfully other posters do. But I think you're doing the right thing and I'm horrified by craven, chicken-livered schools that make children responsible for their own safeguarding.

What a shit show OP. You’re not in the wrong here. The school has utterly failed in its safeguarding responsibilities. I’m sorry to hear about the fallout. 😞

I just want to say I have huge respect for you OP for standing up for your daughter and for all girls. The school are being utterly spineless and deeply unprofessional.

Thanks OP. I’ve mailed the dcs school to ask the question of using toilets and bedrooms for over night stays. Is self id gender based or biological sex.

Best find out before the dds are in the position as obv the school is not going to tell us

The thing is I would not let my 14 year old daughter share a bedroom with one or more people of the male sex at home.

What happens when mixed year groups go away? Older males?

Such a dangerous situation to put female sex teens into. On this occasion it’s just one child. In future it could be more

Oh food

Your dd will rant she will rage she may even hate you for a while. But she will also at some point also be grateful you took that hit.

Like when you were the only kid who appeared to not be able to be out late at night and go to parties etc.

On the outside you'd ve fuming your parebts said no. You'd say they were old fashioned, boring and didnt understand you. And hated you and didn't want you to have any fun.

But secretly you'd be relieved they said no. Because deep down you didn't want to go anyway and having your parents to blame meant you weren't rhe boring on.

Amd one day when you get much much older. You eventuarealise that you were just being protected from situations you weren't mature enough or aware enough to handle.

Hang in there. It will be for the long haul ..you will be playing yhe long game for 20 years. But you are doing the right thing

The outcome of this is that their dd has told the trans girl that we've said no (which we haven't) and therefore are transphobic, so the proverbial is already hitting the fan.

I do think it's better to deal with this directly through the school. Ask them if they are planning to have other mixed-sex groups of three without telling the parents and if not, why not?

Tell them you do not give your consent to your daughter sleeping in a room with a boy. The rest is for them to sort out.

Also tell ask them how they are going to protect girls from accusations of "transphobia" merely for maintaining single-sex boundaries.

I know this isn't easy, but keeping quiet out of fear is exactly why we're in this position now.

As there is a proactive duty in the Equality Act to prevent indirect discrimination of harassment, bad feelings, ostracism etc.... I suspect this may be worth pointing out. You have a belief, tested and protected in law. The trans child is also being subjected to the situation of 'we have to see if everyone agrees' which is going to turn out to be a popularity contest versus other people being permitted rights too, which is equally horrible for them. It is likely that a school will quickly encounter girls with faith, culture and disability based protected characteristics that mean they cannot access mixed sex provision. They cannot just let the mess happen, this is very bad practice under the Equality Act.

Could it reasonably be foreseen that there would be a clash of need/rights here?

Yes.

Is it appropriate to hand the mess over to kids and parents, let them slug it out and manage all the fall out and distress involved, and avoid that way having to handle the responsibility of setting boundaries?

No.

#inclusionfail

I have been following this with interest/horror. I looked at Scotland’s approach to this. There was a guide published Aug last year called “Supporting Transgender children in Schools” by Scottish Government.

There is a section on Residential Trips that states “ • If a transgender young person wants to share a room with other young people who share their gender identity, they should be able to do so, as long as the rights of all those involved are considered and respected.”

It then references at the bottom of that page an appendix which points to more information. The appendix says “ The 2010 Act also contains an exception relating to communal accommodation.99 The EHRC’s Technical Guidance for Schools sets out that “‘Communal accommodation’ is residential accommodation that includes dormitories or other shared sleeping accommodation, which, for reasons of privacy, should be used only by persons of the same sex. It can also include residential accommodation that should be used only by persons of the same sex because of the nature of the sanitary facilities serving the accommodation.” The guidance also sets out the matters which a school would wish to take into account in relation to the exception.”

So their guidance is a clear exception to the EHRC Technical Guidance for Schools which is actually referenced in their document! This is crazy - and going to end up like your situation @foodfiend with parents having to intervene in each case.

How did this madness happen!?

saying 'no' is a more serious risk of harm than any risk that would be run by allowing this to go ahead. Which is exactly why this 'case by case' approach is all wrong. We're being pressured to go along with this against our own judgement

Absolutely nails it.

Are you in touch with Safe Schools or FPFW OP?

It sounds like this is not going well foodfiend.

You are already being painted as the bad parents by these teens. And getting pressure by others.

Which in itself is a whole other issue. The pressure being applied to allow a safeguarding exemption. Ie. A safeguarding fail.

If you need support, you could contact twitter.com/swwalesresister/

I've no idea if you're in that part of wakes but they will be able to direct you towards women in your area.

Thank you for standing up. This stuff is so bloody hard and the easiest less scary thing to do is back down, feel uncomfortable and hope nothing bad happens. You're brave not to do that