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Original poster

School trip policies on overnight accommodation for trans children

740 replies

foodfiend · 24/01/2022 09:18

Short version:
School's policy appears to be something long the lines that trans girls can share with girls if the girls are OK with it. Dd (14) is proposing sharing a room with trans girl friend and another girl. We have said we're not happy about this. Dd says that's transphobic.

Long time lurker here - would welcome any relevant experience, especially from any secondary teachers. School trip is this spring, planned since Oct - they've now been asked to submit room share preferences - rooms of 3. Dd is friendly with a trans girl - (since before name change ~ 2 years ago). Dd says A told her that the teacher had told A that they could share with whoever they want 'as long as everyone was OK with it'. (I have now checked with the teacher, and this appears to be correct.) Dd and another girl have agreed to share with A.

DH and I both said, hang on, A is male. It is not appropriate for you to be sleeping in mixed sex bedrooms. Dd says A is not male and we are transphobic.

To be clear - the kid seems perfectly nice and I think this scenario would probably be fine. (No idea what the other girl or her parents think.) But a policy of 'yeah, sure, mixed sex sleeping arrangements are fine if everyone agrees to it' sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. And it's unclear whether I'd even know it was happening if I didn't happen to already know that A is trans.

I'm pissed off at being put in this position of having to be the one to point out that this is inappropriate and put a target on my head as 'hateful', or seeming to specifically reject A/A's identity. While Dd professes to be happy/keen on this, it's clear that it would be extremely difficult for a girl in a similar position to say that she wouldn't be happy to share - she'd be terrified of being accused of transphobia. And it seems pretty crummy for A as well to be asked to go round her friends and put them on the spot like this.

It seems like the school is relying on the kids to somehow work it out for them. And that no-one seems to have spotted the obvious risks of setting such a precedent. Will they be equally happy for a trans boy to go in with two boys next time around? Or other male and female students to choose to share mixed bedrooms?

Are any other parents and teachers able to share policies or approaches from their schools?

OP posts:
MrBlobbyLivesNextDoor · 28/01/2022 08:18

@Isaw3ships

‘Stop making it out to be about trans. ‘

It is about a trans kid though, isn’t it? Stop making out that the school is trying to make 2 girls share with some random teenage boy.
They’re suggesting that a trans girl,‘part of a friendship group with these two girls could share a room with them, and the teens in question all
Seem okay with that. It’s the parents who are objecting despite,apparently, having no concerns about the tran child in question in any way.

That's because teenagers are still learning about boundaries and safeguarding. And why it's the job of adults to make sure those boundaries and safeguards are in place. The trans child sex is male. Girls don't share with males on residential trips, even if their 'identity' is female. Its sex that is key here. Not gender. My teen daughter would not be sharing a room with born males either under these circumstances.
UltraVividLament · 28/01/2022 08:11

@Isaw3ships I agree that it's pointless to discuss this with you, because you aren't engaged in any kind of discussion. Your argument is essentially that you don't care about safeguarding and that everyone should just shut up and be kind.

Clymene · 28/01/2022 08:09

@Isaw3ships

Utterly pointless trying to discuss anything to do with trans people on here. Trans people aren’t going away though and using the argument that trans people don’t really exist with It’s just a man in a dress trying to get access to women, isn’t going to work.
Who has said the kid doesn't exist?

What a bizarre argument Confused

ShrillSiren · 28/01/2022 08:08

@Isaw3ships

Utterly pointless trying to discuss anything to do with trans people on here. Trans people aren’t going away though and using the argument that trans people don’t really exist with It’s just a man in a dress trying to get access to women, isn’t going to work.
So why not answer the questions so that we can see the error of our ways rather than flouncing? Is it because you have no actual arguement and just think we're being mean? And TBH, you're not discussing or engaging anyway, you ignore any point made and just keep saying it'll never happen and handwaving it away.
Theeyeballsinthesky · 28/01/2022 08:08

Ah I see you don’t have a coherent argument about why teenagers of the opposite sex should share rooms laws just because one of them has a different gender identity and they’d all really like too

ShrillSiren · 28/01/2022 08:01

@Isaw3ships

‘Stop making it out to be about trans. ‘

It is about a trans kid though, isn’t it? Stop making out that the school is trying to make 2 girls share with some random teenage boy.
They’re suggesting that a trans girl,‘part of a friendship group with these two girls could share a room with them, and the teens in question all
Seem okay with that. It’s the parents who are objecting despite,apparently, having no concerns about the tran child in question in any way.

So, would you let any male pupil sleep in with the female pupils if they were friends? Mixed sex sleeping arrangements for all at school? And you can't see a problem with this? What material difference is there between this male child that says they are a girl and a male child that says they are a boy, and why should they be treated differently?
Isaw3ships · 28/01/2022 07:59

Utterly pointless trying to discuss anything to do with trans people on here. Trans people aren’t going away though and using the argument that trans people don’t really exist with It’s just a man in a dress trying to get access to women, isn’t going to work.

Helleofabore · 28/01/2022 07:55

Isaw3ships

Please explain exactly what has happened to this male child to make them no longer a the same safeguarding risk as another male child.

Specifics please, since we are not getting it. Male children under 18. What has changed?

Please include studies that show those exact changes of any male transitioning that make them less prone to being a safeguarding risk. And also statistics. Because this is the real world now and not fantasy.

We will wait.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 28/01/2022 07:49

@Isaw3ships

‘Stop making it out to be about trans. ‘

It is about a trans kid though, isn’t it? Stop making out that the school is trying to make 2 girls share with some random teenage boy.
They’re suggesting that a trans girl,‘part of a friendship group with these two girls could share a room with them, and the teens in question all
Seem okay with that. It’s the parents who are objecting despite,apparently, having no concerns about the tran child in question in any way.

Teenagers are ok with a lot of things that are a bad idea. At 14 I was ok with having sex with my bf, that turned out to be a terrible idea leading up an unwanted pregnancy & a termination. It is not up to 14 year olds to make the rules, safeguarding exists for a reason

A trans girl is still a teenage boy

Deliriumoftheendless · 28/01/2022 07:44

It’s about a trans person only because if the child identified as male it would be a non starter- regardless of

  • part of a friendship group with these two girls could share a room with them, and the teens in question all Seem okay with that.*

It’s changing standard policy for a child who is only different from the rest of the teenage boys in how they wish to be referred to.

dapsnotplimsolls · 28/01/2022 07:33

I haven't read the whole thread, just the OP's posts. Safeguarding trumps being kind every time. I'm a teacher and have been on many residential trips. No way would I allow this, in fact, I'd refuse to go on a trip if the Head insisted on this. Ask your MP to raise this with the department for Education.

Isaw3ships · 28/01/2022 07:13

‘Stop making it out to be about trans. ‘

It is about a trans kid though, isn’t it? Stop making out that the school is trying to make 2 girls share with some random teenage boy.
They’re suggesting that a trans girl,‘part of a friendship group with these two girls could share a room with them, and the teens in question all
Seem okay with that. It’s the parents who are objecting despite,apparently, having no concerns about the tran child in question in any way.

Feelingoktoday · 27/01/2022 22:17

@Isaw3ships

‘ It's nothing to do with the pupil's trans status,’

Yeah. Except it’s everything to do with it. The whole discussion is about trans kids and school trips.

Stop making it out to be about trans. No parent would let their DD share a room with a male. It is about sex. Not gender. Not identity. It is about safeguarding. It isn’t about trans. Just for once it isn’t about trans it is about sex. I really don’t understand what is difficult about that. Girls are vulnerable because of their sex. Not their identity.
Artichokeleaves · 27/01/2022 21:53

Are there any plans to let all kids sleep in mixed sex dorms however they choose because they're all nice kids and friends?

No? Because a whole lot of reasons?

Then there are no exceptions to this. Those reasons have not gone away because of how a male child identifies. Either we don't need sex separation at all, or we do. One or the other. But as 16 pages of thread discusses, there are a lot of issues and reasons why children need the protection of sex separation by responsible adults when away from home on a school trip, under insurance, in the care of people in loco parentis.

'Wouldn't it be nice if we just..' has no place in that.

Deliriumoftheendless · 27/01/2022 21:24

And having a private room is fine if we are looking at “equality of opportunity”- if the child cannot attend the school trip if they can’t share with boys just as other adjustments may need to be made to accommodate other pupils who have very specific requirements.

But sharing with girls is absolutely not a human right.

Deliriumoftheendless · 27/01/2022 21:22

And yet again we see posters arguing that trans pupils are NOT treated equally, but given privileges not available to the other student (boys and girls do not get to share with opposite sex children unless they have a trans identity). So this is hardly equal treatment, but special treatment (which I can accept is fine if that treatment is private room if they can’t share with boys, although it’s still something not available to the rest).

Theeyeballsinthesky · 27/01/2022 21:09

@Isaw3ships

‘What’s to stop boys ID’ing as female so as to share rooms with their GFs on school trips? My BF when I was 15 would have done that, I am sure.’

You honest to god believe that a straight boy would pretend to be trans to share a room with his girlfriend on a school trip? And that no-one else would pick up on that?
You do realise that teens can have sex with each other outside of sharing a room in a school trip??

I’m all ears for you to explain exactly what changes a trans girl is required to make to be trans

I mean as stonewall has told us regularly, thete is no need to change appearance, presentation or even name

Their inner gender identity is female and that’s all that matters right?

Deliriumoftheendless · 27/01/2022 21:05

How does that matter?

The school is potentially putting children together and facilitating it.

Why do schools not allow mixed sex rooms already? Given teens can have sex elsewhere?

Do you want to be in charge on a residential where teens are having sex with your support? Or where a girl could be assaulted?

These are worst case scenarios which is what safeguarding is all about.

This may be the world’s most lovely child ever. But safeguarding doesn’t work by assuming everything is lovely and perfect and nothing goes wrong.

Why do schools separate boys and girls in sleeping arrangements? If they can have sex elsewhere?

titchy · 27/01/2022 21:04

You honest to god believe that a straight boy would pretend to be trans to share a room with his girlfriend on a school trip? And that no-one else would pick up on that?
Fuck me - have you never met a teenager?!!!! Of course they bloody would! Cheeky buggers teens.

Isaw3ships · 27/01/2022 20:50

‘What’s to stop boys ID’ing as female so as to share rooms with their GFs on school trips? My BF when I was 15 would have done that, I am sure.’

You honest to god believe that a straight boy would pretend to be trans to share a room with his girlfriend on a school trip? And that no-one else would pick up on that?
You do realise that teens can have sex with each other outside of sharing a room in a school trip??

Jacaranda75 · 27/01/2022 20:41

I would not allow this, sorry. And it’s not fair that you have to be the bad guy in this situation.

What’s to stop boys ID’ing as female so as to share rooms with their GFs on school trips? My BF when I was 15 would have done that, I am sure.

The scary thing is, like the Girl Guides, the school are under no obligation to tell you.

Helleofabore · 27/01/2022 20:36

Yeah. Except it’s everything to do with it. The whole discussion is about trans kids and school trips.

It is about a boy that identifies as a girl. This person should be treated as a boy. Why do you believe this person should be treated as another female?

Whether this person identified as a boy or a girl, they are male. Take away the trans label, and the answer is quite obvious.

Do you believe that any male should have special treatment on this instance?

If so, why?

titchy · 27/01/2022 20:35

@Isaw3ships

‘ It's nothing to do with the pupil's trans status,’

Yeah. Except it’s everything to do with it. The whole discussion is about trans kids and school trips.

No. It's about opposite sex kids sharing a bedroom. The teachers have made it about the kids trans status by saying that makes it ok. It doesn't. They are still the opposite sex.
Deliriumoftheendless · 27/01/2022 20:26

I don’t know but I suspect the OP would be alright with her daughter sharing with a transboy.

I think most if not all of the posters here would be.

It wouldn’t be an issue if it was a girl identifying as a boy. It would be a problem if it was a boy identifying as a boy.

Do you see the common theme yet?

334bu · 27/01/2022 20:26

Yeah. Except it’s everything to do with it. The whole discussion is about trans kids and school trips.
No it isn't ,as there would be absolutely no problem if the student in question were a transmen. The problem is not about the person's gender identity, it is all about their sex.

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