Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dad taking daughters into the ladies or disabled toilets

260 replies

MattDillonsEyebrows · 22/01/2022 14:32

If a dad was on his own with two daughters ages 4 & 5, would you have an issue with him going into the ladies toilets with them? He says he would call out, that he is a man, and coming in with his daughters and would stay in a cubicle, and also call out when leaving the cubicle. But obviously he would need to use the sinks to wash hands.

Or would you suggest he uses the disabled toilets instead?

The reason he doesn't want to use the mens, is a) them having to walk past urinals and strange men peeing, and b) due to the all too common state of men's toilets in general and even the sit down toilet usually has pee all over the seat and is generally disgusting and he doesn't want to subject his daughters to this.

I personally wouldn't have an issue with this because I agree with his reasons for not wanting to take his daughters in there, but obviously his presence would more than likely make some women feel uncomfortable which he would not want to do.

Disabled toilet is obviously another option, but having seen some of the disabled toilet threads on here, that would also cause an issue if a disabled person was waiting. Obviously a child, is unlikely to be able to wait.

Please nobody retort with 'well the fact that men's toilet's are filthy isn't the women's problem' or similar as, whilst I agree with this sentiment, unfortunately they do tend to be gross and changing that would take huge societal change which let's face it, is not likely to happen soon.

OP posts:
HardbackWriter · 22/01/2022 17:34

Because children are people too, who deserve respect and dignity, and access to the facilities of their own sex?

How can you think that having access to single-sex facilities is a matter of respect and dignity but also that it's fine for men to wander into the women's toilets if they happen to be accompanied by their daughter?

HardbackWriter · 22/01/2022 17:32

Do you also object to fathers discreetly going to change their babies in the ladies because there's no changing table in the mens? You'd rather the baby got changed on the mens floor, or all the going out and and about with baby be the mother's job?

Yes. I do object to that too. DH was the one at home for a period with both our children as babies, and works part-time so he can have time with them during the week, so he's very used to having to find changing facilities. It's a pain. He's had to change the baby on the floor before (though so have I, sometimes there just aren't any changing facilities). He could go on mastermind with his specialist subject being 'shops in our town where the change table isn't in the women's loos'. But he doesn't go in the women's, because that's not an acceptable solution.

Goldbar · 22/01/2022 17:29

@FairyLightQueen

I don't understand how people would rather have a small girl see a stranger's penis than let a small girl use the toilets of her own sex! How is that feminist?!
It's not the small girl who is the issue here Hmm.
Lovelyricepudding · 22/01/2022 17:29

It seems many people do not consider the split to be men and women's but rather men and then 'anyone who doesn't fancy using the men's for whatever reason because women can just budge up'

AhItsYou · 22/01/2022 17:27

All the people sneering at objections to a father entering the women's toilets on the basis that young female children deserve to toilet in facilities of their own sex have just removed that option/right by the vet act of making it a mixed sex space by allowing those fathers in. Not only for the child of the man in question but for any slightly older female children going into 'womens' toilets unaccompanied who can be followed by any strange men claiming to need to change a nappy or accompany a small child.

Not the best thought-through argument, is it?

Lovelyricepudding · 22/01/2022 17:26

@VelvetChairGirl

I wouldnt bat an eyelid he has a valid reason to be there.

I take my son into the ladies with me, he is now 11, no one has moaned if they do I will tell thm he is SEN and gets frightened in the mens and there is no way on earth I would go in the mens with him.

If he has SEN then you should use the accessible (disabled) toilets. He is too old for the ladies where 7/8/9 year old girls are on their own. If he does not have SEN then it would be awful behaviour to claim it just for convenience.
Nomoreusernames1244 · 22/01/2022 17:24

Goodness I think I'm one of the only ones that would rather he went to the ladies. Men's toilets are rank and generally have men in various states of undress not in a cubicle. No way would I want a small child seeing that, tbh

I used to use a local leisure centre. Mens toilets were rank, yes.

However this meant women used to take their sons, of varying ages- some were sent in in their own so more than capable of independently using a toilet, and I saw on boy, taller than me, being taken by his mum with her hands over his eyes through the womens change to use the womens loos. That and my 7 year old went to use the shower once and found a fully naked boy using it. His mum was watching her daughter’s swimming lesson and didn’t return for 20 mins.

Anyway, all this led to was the women’s toilets were also grim. Pee on the seats, on the floor, stinky etc.

The mums refused to send their sons into the mens as it was “dangerous”, apparently.

This is why I will never accept allowing men and independent boys into womens facilities.

SilkLabrador · 22/01/2022 17:19

At 4 and 5 he can wait outside the ladies loos for them to finish.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 22/01/2022 17:18

Is it unfeminist to not want my preteen daughters to encounter strange men in a place where they are unaccompanied and may well be completely alone, as their own (male) parent is waiting outside? In that situation, the accompanied preteen is the more vulnerable.

StarsAreWishes · 22/01/2022 17:18

Did this thread start off in the Feminism board or was it moved? I could have sworn it was in general chat.

FairyLightQueen · 22/01/2022 17:15

I don't understand how people would rather have a small girl see a stranger's penis than let a small girl use the toilets of her own sex! How is that feminist?!

FairyLightQueen · 22/01/2022 17:14

Goodness I think I'm one of the only ones that would rather he went to the ladies. Men's toilets are rank and generally have men in various states of undress not in a cubicle. No way would I want a small child seeing that, tbh.

Lovelyricepudding · 22/01/2022 17:03

I also realise many women wouldn't be ok with it, despite the children, (which is fine), so wanted to get a general consensus.

No you shouldn't go with the 'consensus', if just one woman objected rhen that is enough to say 'I respect that woman's right to privacy, dignity and safety' which is what single sex toilets are provided for.

My DH absolutely used the men's when my daughters were small, it wouldn't have occurred to him to ignore the boundaries of women, ignore their feelings, ignore the fact that by entering this space many women would not be able to use them, and demand entry into women's toilets.

Whatwouldscullydo · 22/01/2022 16:41

But in absence of that, girls deserve to wee in the facility most suitable for their sex

Most establishments have a cut off. It's usually about 8. So under 8 you go to whatever loo applicable to the sex of the parent. After that they go in their own.

Everyone who uses public toilets expects to see small children of either sex. It's not the drama it's it's made out to be by men who most likely are just trying to get out of parenting at all.

SpookyScarySkeletons · 22/01/2022 16:40

@PurplePeculiar

I don't think currently there's an acceptable solution until more businesses have family toilets. I don't think using the disabled loos or the women's loos is ok, no, for lots of reasons. But - would I personally be upset if he came into the ladies as you described, no probably not. Would I be upset if a male identifying as female came in - yes without a doubt.
As far as I can see nobody asked an opinion on a "man identifying as female" so please park that one as we all know things descend into nastiness on here.
twelly · 22/01/2022 16:40

I think he should use the disabled toilets, the children need to go to toilet and that is as far as I can see the only solution - given the what is available at the present time. Of course campaign for family toilets - but these don 't appear overnight

Deadringer · 22/01/2022 16:38

Presumably if he had small boys rather than girls he would have brought them into the mens whatever the state of them so that excuse doesn't really make sense, and i am not sure little girls would be any more traumatised by seeing men using a urinal than little boys would. Either way, men shouldn't be in the women's toilets.

RobotValkyrie · 22/01/2022 16:37

This thread is beyond ridiculous...

I don't really understand what difference it makes if the children are male or female?
Because children are people too, who deserve respect and dignity, and access to the facilities of their own sex? Because exposing young girls to partially naked strange men is not on? Because girls are allowed to go out and about in wider society, under the protection of a responsible adult, from the youngest age, as it is essential for the proper socialisation of any child? Because girls shouldn't face disadvantages just because of the sex of their guardian? Because introducing additional constraint when girls are looked after by their dad, means their mum is more likely to end up having to do all the work of looking after them?

Jesus. Sometimes "feminists" can be furiously anti-women.
Do you also object to fathers discreetly going to change their babies in the ladies because there's no changing table in the mens? You'd rather the baby got changed on the mens floor, or all the going out and and about with baby be the mother's job?
Prioritising the rights of women and children my ass. You guys lost the plot.

Note: yes to gender neutral designated family facilities (a bit like the disabled loo cubicle). Would make everyone happy. But in absence of that, girls deserve to wee in the facility most suitable for their sex.

CorvusPurpureus · 22/01/2022 16:36

I do think that if I were to be designing toilets, I'd put the urinals round a corner or behind a screen. So as a dad, you could go in with your small dd & take her to a cubicle without having to walk past men having a tinkle.

It's not a huge problem, i don't think - wall of backs, not blokes doing helicopter impressions, & it's their space - but if I were a dad & was concerned about my dd seeing even that much of men having a pee, I'd want that, long before I decided that the solution was for me to enter women's spaces.

Whatsyourfavouritescarymovie · 22/01/2022 16:36

I personally wouldn't have an issue with a man coming into the ladies for his daughter(s) to use the toilet. Clearly I'm a minority.

HRMtheQuern · 22/01/2022 16:35

Well the kids need the toilet and he's an adult responsible for them you can't just leave a 4 and 5 year old to go in without an adult in a public toilet but I think he should've used the disabled one

Spellfish · 22/01/2022 16:30

At 5, neither of my dds could reliably manage a public toilet - too small to reach the sink quite often, scared of the sound of the hand dryers and bamboozled by the different types of locks on doors. At school, everything is them-sized, and YR teachers quite regularly have to rescue kids who have locked themselves in!

So DH took them in the gents, and it was never an issue. Often an advantage - no queue.

trunktoes · 22/01/2022 16:29

My husband is a stay at home Dad and would never have dreamed of going into the ladies. He would either take them in the mens or use the disabled or wait outside

lucillelarusso · 22/01/2022 16:28

Why on earth was a child in a casino - they are over 21 only?? Why didn't they go to the foyer of the hotel and use the mens? None of these 'reasons' are ok.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 22/01/2022 16:28

@lucillelarusso the father had gone to buy a new top and brought it into the toilets to pass to the mother who was cleaning the child up.