Girls with short hair being labelled as trans

This Eloise Stonborough who works for Stonewall (no agenda there) Pie?

www.seh.ox.ac.uk/people/eloise-stonborough

What is the point of your post pie?

As a child entering the toilets I would always be asked if I was a girl. The answer is simply to tell the truth.

You have posted an example of some getting upset. However, many of us have experienced ourselves during our life where we are asked.

In fact, I think Lauren Black’s way of dealing with this was superb!

Instead of being outraged, turn around and thank the questioner for protecting women and girls in a time of uncertainty.

Or… just get mad.

(Maybe get mad at the people who have caused the questioning in the first place. You know, those males who cannot respect the need for single SEX spaces).

Why no picture? Because obvious bollocks will be revealed as the obvious bollocks it is??

www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/01/19/public-toilets-trans-bathroom-butch-lesbian-harassed-gender-critical-feminists/

"Eloise Stonborough, 32, is a cis woman who presents as butch – and she estimates she is challenged roughly every one in three times she uses a women’s public toilet."

My kid has had cropped hair since she was 5 (only girl in the school not to have long hair). Her whole life she's been asked 'what are you' or assumed a boy. Unsurprisingly, given the current climate, she came to the conclusion that she can't therefore really be a girl. I cannot tell you how fucking angry I am that she has been manipulated like this. I'm working hard to help her accept her female body and that she is simply... herself.

My former secondary school is having an anniversary celebration this year and so the Facebook page is putting up old photos. The girls from the 1980s, 1990s - such a selection of hair styles! I drop DD off now and even curly hair is rare, it's all straightened and rarely even in a ponytail. DS has a ponytail though, and with a mask on and in baggy clothes often gets called a girl.

Yep. 11yo DD with short hair was in bits a while back as classmates were asking her if she was lesbian or trans. She knows it's fine to be either but says she's not - she's a girl who likes her hair short.

God this is so sad, it really seems to be a step backwards doesn’t it. I remember short hair on girls being really cool in the 80s when I was at school, and there was more an ‘anything goes’ attitude. You’d assume each generation is more open minded and progressive than the last, but in terms of appearance anyway, that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Both my sons have long hair, neither have been assumed to be trans. One is at hight school, one at primary. I wonder if there's more pressure and judgement on girls for this too.

Another DD with short hair and a preference for trousers for school here too. She quite often gets called lesbian which doesn't faze her. But she sagely commented to the lad saying it once, that's only an insult if you think being a lesbian is a bad thing. She's not been asked yet if she's trans or NB, although most of the girls she knows who have short hair are. Her school is quite conservative and I don't think this ideology has really taken off there. Teachers have occasionally called her a boy when they don't see her face (she's obviously female) but I think they're quite careful of what they say to pupils now.
I think she almost wants to be asked if she's NB so she can say no.

@NitroNine

The internet as a global means of group-finding certainly continued up to the late 2010’s: biggest subcultures were probably E-Girls (& E-Boys); VCSO girls; & hipsters (nature of hipster evolving between the Millennial & Gen-Z versions). Normcore was fairly short-lived. Maybe the Hypebeasts, though I’ve never been fully convinced that “being brand-obsessed & acquisitive” should really be considered a distinctive youth subculture

Now we’ve got Dark Academia (STG it’s mostly Potterheads trying to pretend they’re not into HP - oh & they’re Totally Grown Up); Goblincore (nature-focused with bonus!fairies & unnatural hair colours); Cottagecore (it’s all gone a bit “Little House on the Prairie”); WitchTok is bringing together The Youth much as “The Craft” did in the 1990s (but with some actual Wiccans & other grown-up Witches in the mix); & E-Girls/E-Boys have endured… THEN Scene/Emo Kids, Goths, Punks & the Grungers are all coming back.

However, the disparate groups are united by, essentially, a new religion - they, collectively, are a kind of Messiah, come to save the world (after previous generations have ruined it). They are the enlightened ones, accepting of all, alert to injustices, & challenging them whenever they see them (& deviation from the script = bigotry). They absolutely believe that if you tolerate any level of intolerance it will descend into fascism; & no-platforming is the only defence against that. Not all of them, obviously - & there are people older than them who have bought into many of the (very damaging, frankly) ideas that have been bundled together.

While as a humanist I understand we cannot tolerate the intolerable the irony about the current "woke" lot (stupid word, but it is what is used) is that they are the most fascist group of ideologues I have met outside of actual fascists.

DD is 9, has short hair and is rarely seen in anything but trousers and spends her time climbing things or playing sports.. She quite often gets mistaken for a boy, which she is mildly annoyed by. However last year she was at a holiday club with a bunch of kids from other schools and one boy repeatedly called a “girl” (doing air quotes!) because he was convinced she was MTF trans. Her friends were all a bit as they all said she was a girl but he wouldn’t listen. It quite upset her in the end.

Funnily enough her bestie is a boy who loves Barbies and has a real gift for designing clothes. No-one has challenged him … yet.

Yes. This is the result of gender ideology being adopted wholesale. My DD has shorter hair - now she gets told at school by other kids that she’s a boy. She says she’s not but her view doesn’t matter apparently!

That is the goal I think. Restricting peoples choices and limiting differences to the point where all language on sex and gender becomes impossible... then the left are effectively immobilised as we will be accused by children who do not know better of being bigots, while the real bigots who rule our country get away with stealing all the money.

The trans "debate" is just part of the divide and conquer tactics the ruling class always use to keep us all arguing.

And it works as there are a lot of fairly fascistic young people who have been fooled into thinking that they are being good when they are in fact being evil.

It uses the same basic tactics as religions do too.

Haven’t read the whole thread yet, but this is something I’ve noticed over the years.

When I was at school most girls had short hair by today’s definition (shoulder length), a few had longer, a few had shorter.

When my oldest (now 20s) was at school the average length was longer, but some girls still had short hair.

Now my youngest (10) is at school all the girls have very long hair, none at all have short hair.

At the secondary school he is due to go to there are now several girls who’ve gone from long hair to short and now identify as NB. None have short hair and are happy to be seen as girls.

It’s so obvious that stereotypes play a huge part in this, but so many people are too stupid to understand and see how damaging it is to girls.

I had a very short pixie cut (think Winona Ryder) in the 90s and lots of people assumed I was a lesbian.

DD (13) cut her hair v short just before Christmas, this hasn't happened to her yet but I guess there's time yet. She's home educated so at least not under pressure to conform at school but definitely falls into the 'alternative' bracket, it makes me sad that those groups are less common at schools and colleges now. She's firmly GC and not afraid to say what she thinks so I pity the first person who labels her trans, they're likely to get a full lecture on gender stereotyping

So true. I kid you not, we have 2 large secondary schools near us. At chucking out time, it is impossible to spot ONE GIRL who does NOT have long straight hair, centre parting, no fringe, skirt hitched up. We are a very white area - so there are just a very few black girls with shorter naturally curly hair.
My daughter has short hair and wears trousers to school. The school nurse told me she thought she must be questioning her gender identity because she looked so different. I was furious and asked if there was no room for a girl who just wanted short hair anymore?
It’s a monoculture now - no different styles, no originality. Just plastic social media filters and Kim kardashian image.

For anyone whose DDs have short hair but are being told they are trans here are some examples of girls/women with short hair to show them.

Best Short Haircuts Of All Time - Celebrity Short Hair Styles

www.seventeen.com/beauty/hair/advice/g649/best-short-haircuts-of-all-time/

I was looking at a class photo from the mid sixties. We would have been 6 or 7. 14 of the girls had hair well above shoulder length and only 6 had longer hair. I expect it would the opposite way round now.

I think it’s been coming for longer than we think, though. When my elder son was born in 1995 I remember being struck by the “pink and blue” mentality and the assumption of what were girls’ and boys’ toys.

I thought it was ok to be gender non conforming, but all kids are being taught
These days that if you dare have any interests outside of stereotypes then you’re trans. If you want to dress differently you’re trans.. it’s horrifying.

The internet as a global means of group-finding certainly continued up to the late 2010’s: biggest subcultures were probably E-Girls (& E-Boys); VCSO girls; & hipsters (nature of hipster evolving between the Millennial & Gen-Z versions). Normcore was fairly short-lived. Maybe the Hypebeasts, though I’ve never been fully convinced that “being brand-obsessed & acquisitive” should really be considered a distinctive youth subculture

Now we’ve got Dark Academia (STG it’s mostly Potterheads trying to pretend they’re not into HP - oh & they’re Totally Grown Up); Goblincore (nature-focused with bonus!fairies & unnatural hair colours); Cottagecore (it’s all gone a bit “Little House on the Prairie”); WitchTok is bringing together The Youth much as “The Craft” did in the 1990s (but with some actual Wiccans & other grown-up Witches in the mix); & E-Girls/E-Boys have endured… THEN Scene/Emo Kids, Goths, Punks & the Grungers are all coming back.

However, the disparate groups are united by, essentially, a new religion - they, collectively, are a kind of Messiah, come to save the world (after previous generations have ruined it). They are the enlightened ones, accepting of all, alert to injustices, & challenging them whenever they see them (& deviation from the script = bigotry). They absolutely believe that if you tolerate any level of intolerance it will descend into fascism; & no-platforming is the only defence against that. Not all of them, obviously - & there are people older than them who have bought into many of the (very damaging, frankly) ideas that have been bundled together.

Ah wow my eldest got her hair cut at about 10 she was never described as trans or a boy. I think she still looked quite feminine but she always liked her make up. My youngest has short hair now too (11) though they are trans. No one questions it. It's just accepted