Do people see centre left parties as more moral?

Utter nonsense, what does a voter of the far right know about the people in the centre left?
Following your logic, what does a voter of the centre left know about the people of the far right? And yet, centre leftists seem to make all sorts of comments about people on the right. Maybe it's possible to know and understand people across the whole political spectrum. I certainly have lots of friends with widely differing political views and I understand them, even if I don't agree with them. I also have dear friends who are right wing and they treat people as individuals and are respectful to all. I think it's you that are too hung up with labels.

New self ID goes much further than that - it imposes obligations on the rest of society to keep up the fantasy. Placing obligations on society to act together is left wing.

Obligations on society, yes. Assuming you are more important than others and their needs are unimportant, not so much.

I don’t see that self-ID really fits into either left or right. I think most people see it’s morally wrong when they actually examine what’s being demanded. It’s not very long ago that all the main parties were fully behind it. As Omicrone says, nobody bothered to consider women, which is very depressing indeed.

So individualism would be 'I declare myself a women' and everyone else can say fine but we see you as a man and will treat you as such.

Individualism affects the rest of society but doesn't place obligations on them.

Individualism does affect the rest of society

My right to choose my response to covid Id classic example - your right to chose affects what others can do ?

What this issue has really taught us is that Right, Left, Centre, whatever.....no one really gives a fuck about women.

It's so depressing.

Self Id seems to me to centre right/ individualism

I wondered that then decided not. I would say that was 'old-style' transsexuals 'I will dress as a woman and blend in. New self ID goes much further than that - it imposes obligations on the rest of society to keep up the fantasy. Placing obligations on society to act together is left wing.

I think self-ID is immoral and will not be voting for any party that promotes it even though I used to.

I think you can be moral on either side, but the left get so tied up in one individuals plight they harm wider society by trumpeting the cause at everyone elses expense, while the right are so busy seeing the forest they damage the trees by not noticing the cost to individuals.

Self Id seems to me to centre right/ individualism

So that's why labour are so keen I guess - the Blair heritage

No. There's a difference between thinking that many centre left policies would generally make for a fairer society and thinking that all left/centre-left policies, or indeed politicians and voters, are inherently morally good and that all right-wing ones are morally bad.

This is an excellent summary of my pov on this.

I think centre right could be considered selfish, I only need think of myself (bad) or that we all have an individual responsibility to ourselves and to help others (good).

Centre left could be considered that we must work as a society to ensure everyone is looked after (good) or everyone should look after me (bad)

I remember a poster on MN a while ago who stated their DP was so left wing he didn't think he should have to work. Which I guess is the opposite end of the scale to saying if someone cannot work they should starve. Both positions I would say are morally bad.

self ID may come under 'society should look after me' which is more left?

A man who is ignoring most of us because we asked him to justify a sweeping statement he made. How lovely!

Perhaps the Tories tend to see Labour as a party with different opinions to them while some in Labour tend to see the Tories as a party with bad morals?

From your posts so far, I suspect that your opinion of us is rather more negative than “people with different opinions”.

Letting one group of people appropriate or trample over the rights of a historically oppressed or disadvantaged group just because they've decided they want to does not seem very morally superior to me.

^^This

The only people who see the left as more moral are people on the left.

No. There's a difference between thinking that many centre left policies would generally make for a fairer society and thinking that all left/centre-left policies, or indeed politicians and voters, are inherently morally good and that all right-wing ones are morally bad.

Letting one group of people appropriate or trample over the rights of a historically oppressed or disadvantaged group just because they've decided they want to does not seem very morally superior to me.

I'm centre-left but refuse to vote for any party who won't admit they know perfectly well what a woman is. I won't vote for a right-wing party either though, so I guess I'll be spoiling my ballot paper.

I suspect the majority of women here with concerns about the gender ideology political lobby are centre left to full left at heart, just without a left party available to vote for who aren't full out buried in anti-woman politics with many other concerning features.

I don’t see people who disagree with me as bad or immoral but when I was campaigning for brexit I received so much personal abuse from people on the left that it seemed clear to me that some on the left don’t just see me as someone they disagree with but more like someone they think is bad.

I don't get your logic, disagreement with Brexit wasn't only from the left.

Yeah, broadly I do think left-wing parties are more moral than right-wing ones. Left-wing thinking tends to centre others/the aggregate, whereas right-wing thinking is, usually quite unabashedly, all about self and the individual.

My father taught me when I was tiny that Tories were people whose parents hadn't taught them to share. I'm now in my late 40s with a degree in history/political theory and an extremely wide-ranging professional background, and I've seen nothing whatsoever that dislodges that principle.

'Ultraconservative' Iran:

www.dw.com/en/iran-how-transgender-people-survive-ultraconservative-rule/a-57480850

"..Tehran, has been dubbed one of the world's hubs for sex-reassignment surgery. Transgender individuals live and work with no legal barriers in the country. The government even helps with the costs of hormone medicine and gender reassignment surgery for those who want it."

Gosh, what a huge subject for a first post on Mumsnet! I don't, unfortunately, have the hours required to write a comprehensive rebuttal of your views but I didn't want to ignore you.

If you’re talking about the Republican Party in the United States then I’d say that they are a party of the moderate /mainstream centre right in America

Just as an aside did you think that President Trump was moderate/ mainstream centre right?

I also read somewhere (don’t know if it’s true) that women are more likely to vote for centre left parties than men are. In fact if only women voted I think we might have a Labour government and self ID would likely be law by now.

Cool data points.

The argument that women are more likely to vote left was one of the arguments used against women's suffrage.