Sperm stealing and men's rights - what do you think?

That's not against the grain it's true.

Condoms are if used correctly v effective.

And if used incorrectly surely better than nothing. Esp if wanting to protect self from possibility woman/older girl telling fibs about contraception/could steal semen... (!!??!!).

If man that worried-

Have fab sexy times without PIV. Not pushing anal. All the other good stuff. Who focused PIV? Generally men, plenty women don't get off on it.

-wear condom. Hot sauce? Bizarre. Hot water bit of soap easy. Or just tip down bog. Will reduce risk of being able to steal (!!) enough semen to get Pg. On the clearly vv low chance woman with (as per drake) is vv peculiar.

IME women and girls WAY more interested in protection than blokes.

And blokes should be.
Pregnancy only one thing.
What about STD risk??? With ONS or new partner.

Women and girls bear the brunt if Pg. Really massive decisions which will impact life either way. Pregnancy birth hardly trivial. Future- work, restriction freedom, let's face it possible dates etc not so keen if she has kid esp younger. Societal judgement. Responsibility....

Big stuff.

A condom yes but that's not widely used in trusting relationships. Should every man accuse his partner of potentially lying to him and wear a condom every time? That would be the end of many relationships. Or should they trust them like a normal human would?

My husband did for years. I can't now remember why I came off the pill. I didn't have problems with it but for some reason I did and we used condoms only.

I'm going to go against the grain here on the view that no method of contraception is 100% safe. I used the pill on its own and latterly we used condoms on their own. The only time I didn't use a contraceptive I became pregnant. If used properly condoms are very effective.

'A condom yes but that's not widely used in trusting relationships. Should every man accuse his partner of potentially lying to him and wear a condom every time? That would be the end of many relationships. Or should they trust them like a normal human would?'

Is it not? Common in LTR?

Plenty use condoms. Often due to female partner being fucked off with taking hormone interfering drugs for years.

And it's a mixed bag for us. Nice to not use for sure. OTOH. No come leaking out for fair old while. And it's smelly tbh. No wet patch. 6 of one etc.

IME WHO prefers no condom. To the extent really big deal, which sex feel more strongly? Hate them. No way. Don't care what happens just no way using condom. If worried MAP no probs...

That would be men. And plenty who will not wear even ONS.

In my life I've met two men who were firm. Condoms fuck that. Not ones I've slept with. But had this situation many times in past where man refuses.

Bloke A had, at 27 maybe. Ex wife 2 kids. 3 (and counting) babies with various other women.

Bloke B. Baby with GF when they both 20. Told me ONS girl Pg going to keep it. He said I've told her nothing to do with me, no money no interest do what you want.

I said. You are aware you can wear a condom FFS?

he said. Nah. Don't like them.

Who drives not using condom? Come on you know answer.

So many threads on here. Pill etc makes me ill. He won't use condom. He won't have snip. He wants sex.

A man who doesn't want a child right now obviously isn't going to have a vasectomy (unless you think not wanting a child with someone he went on a couple of dates with means he should never be allowed to have a child?) A condom yes but that's not widely used in trusting relationships. Should every man accuse his partner of potentially lying to him and wear a condom every time? That would be the end of many relationships. Or should they trust them like a normal human would?

This drake fella.

Chili sauce not usually in bathroom.

Went and got from kitchen?
Had put in there in advance?

Why chili sauce? That's bizarre. Wash out with hot water bit of soap done.

So he planned this. Why?

Something v odd going on here I mean obviously.

Oh right this. MRA thing obv.

Goes along with what's it called. Financial abortion or something?

Impact on unwanted/ unanticipated/ because dodgy behaviour pregnancy is obv way more serious for women.

Idea that women steal semen??!!

I mean sure may happen but... It's essentially an MRA women awful freakout with what stats?

And if happens...

Ok. Woman sneaks out after sex gets hold of come (from condom with spermicide which most used to have at least). Pours into turkey baster and squirts in...

Serious sexual assault? No. Man taking condom off during sex is non consensual sex.

It would need to be. Theft of genetic material or similar.

Anyway say big crime long time prison.

Woman prison pregnant. Baby born prison. Depending on country, baby removed from mother some point young and placed in hopefully her family. Or care.

Obv father not interested.

Chances then baby removed from mum before old enough to remember her. Zero interest dad. Care system.

Overall life prospects v statistically likely to be massively reduced. Much higher chance of MH probs, addiction, poverty, sexual exploitation from teen, homelessness...

This can happen - my brother's best friend dated a woman who deliberately got pregnant and then refused to let him see the child. He seriously considered taking her to court and even went to a lawyer, but in the end he decided that it was going to make the situation worse rather than better for the kid.

It really bothered him for a long time - just a terrible thing to do.

But like others have said, difficult to prove.

What's the aim - throw pregnant women in prison for this proposed offence, let them give birth in jail, let them breast feed in jail, take their babies away? Setting aside how difficult it would be to prove (or how dangerous it would be to leave some sort of discretion to the police/CPS given their track record with women) what is to be gained by criminalising women who get pregnant?!?

allhiphop.com/rumors/instagram-model-alleges-drake-put-hot-sauce-in-his-used-condom-to-stop-groupies-from-stealing-his-sperm/

This story has been going around the internet in recent days (source is social media, so it's unverified). Summary- rapper Drake has sex with instagram model, then afterwards he puts hot chilli sauce into the condom (to "kill the sperm") and ties a knot in it and bins it. She then apparently takes it out of the bin when he isn't there and attempts to impregnate herself with it.

The pill can fail if you're sick out have diarrhoea. No contraception is 100% effective. I don't see how this would be enforceable.

Its legally unenforceable.

If a man doesn't want a baby, he should take responsibility for himself primarily by refraining from sex or using a condom even if his partner is on the pill, otherwise he is taking that risk.

Same as women having sex always have the risk of pregnancy and using a condom is a back up for if the pill fails for her.

These are men who wish to vilify women for their own inability or willingness to take responsibility themselves.

It sucks to have to take responsibility doesn't it? Women have done forever...

Or get a vasectomy 🤷‍♀️

No more jouno feeding can’t everyone see thats wats happening here.

I know.two women (decades apart)who wanted a pregnancy and told the respective partners not to worry about contraception as they would take care of that side of things. Both were 'using' the diaphragm which has a high fail rate (100% if it's not used at all!) and blamed that for the resulting pregnancy. Neither felt that they had done anything wrong.

I think if men don't want a child they need to wear a condom!

If I were you guys I would’t grace this thread with any more comments. It’ll only fuel the article.

Ok so the jurno has got the info needed for the next article. Was very obvious really.

I have no idea why this is being taken so seriously. If you don't want a baby a) dont have sex or b) have sex and wear a condom c) if you dont trust the woman who you are willing having sex with , wear 2 x b) or instead a)

Unless of course this is just another evil bitch conspiracy

Sounds like something Fathers for Justice would spunk all over, pun intended.

There more I consider these questions and others I have come to the conclusion that a big problem is that our society believes that we all have a right to consequence free sex.

But consequence free sex is a myth.

By consequence I mean pregnancy, STDs, emotional attachments or emotional reactions...etc

There are many measures we can take to try and avoid these consequences (and I'm grateful for the measures!) like contraception, open conversations about expectations...

But even so, sex always will have the potential to have significant consequences. And no measure can completely change that, especially when people do lie, change their minds, get emotionally attached...

And I think we need to be forthright about thar. Sex will always have the potential for serious consequences. But I don't know how you have that conversation without looking like you are slut shaming or being sex negative.

It's a terrible idea for a few very simple reasons:

• it would be essentially impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt (no one monitors pill intake, and such monitoring would be a gross breach of privacy)
• it would result in perfectly innocent women experiencing contraception failure (that would be about 5% every year, in the real world?) being wrongly accused of deception, and very probably pressured into getting an abortion (under threat of being sent to court by their partner)

This second part reminds me of how women experiencing miscarriage get criminalised in certain parts of the world (accused of having had an illegal abortion)

It's also a complete false equivalence. Stealthing introduces the risk of pregnancy and STDs. Both are massive direct health risks, resulting from a substance being introduced into a person's body against their wishes.
Lying about being on the pill introduces a risk of pregnancy, which is of no physical consequences for the "sperm donor" himself. There's legal/financial ramifications for sure, but it is in no way equivalent with injecting an unwanted substance which carries serious health risks into someone else's body.

And most importantly, in term of "monitoring": putting on a condom has no impact on a man's bodily integrity, and can be easily checked on the spot. A condom having been removed is also easy to prove, given the resulting mess. The only "invasive" tests required would involve the presumed victim, not the presumed perpetrator.
The pill having been correctly taken or not is much harder to prove or disprove, and involves the monitoring, over a significant period (including, before the act??), of which substances enteed the presumed perpretrator's body. Monitoring this is neither reasonable nor practical, and could easily result in coercive control from abusive partners, and distorting women's choice about what to do with their own bodies (e.g. opt for the much more invasive implant itself, as it's easier to prove? but it can come with more unpleasant/dangerous side effects)

Bottom line: don't want kids? Wear a condom, get the snip, or fuck off.

Btw, I also think that a woman saying she is in the pill but not being diligent about how/when she is taking it would NOT be lying about taking the pill.