Miss B , age 14, is challenging the College of Policing’s Guidance on Hate Crime

A brief look around FWR would make it clear that it is happening. All the time.

This makes me so angry.

• You're not allowed to complain about this male supremacism and biological disadvantage of being born female while the male people at the heart of it tell you that they want you to pretend that sex doesn't exist until you have absolute cast iron proof you have been harmed

• Then we'll exclude you from services, tell you you're a bad person who doesn't deserve services for not making your life all about a male stranger who matters more than you do, and threaten to take action including police and a criminal record while refusing to record what happened to you

• We'll tell you repeatedly that what happened to you, whatever it was, was not bad enough to justify anyone caring, and you probably deserved it for being traumatised/disabled/of the wrong faith/thinking you had rights

• If you fuss and try to push this or go public, you risk a huge pile on and death threats (Hi JKR) and rape threats while we try and get you silenced

• If you succeed in getting it to court, we'll get our rich lobby to fight on the grounds that males are much, much more important and you're a bad person with bad friends who has no rights in law anyway and ought to just be harmed quietly and appreciate it.

Just wtaf are people thinking here that they don't believe children should be allowed a voice to stand up to policies that harm them ?

It's flat out male supremacism. Covered with a police enforced demand not to mention that it's bleeding obvious sex exists and doesn't shift because we all know who wins and who loses and isn't even allowed to talk about their needs.

Artichoke leaves, that was one amazing post. I will be saving it for future use, as it just nails the issue for girls.

My own rural council had this exact scenario written as policy into their 'trans guidance' until forced to withdraw it. They are not backing down though, they are saying it was ' best practice at the time'

*So just to make it clear, Miss B has never experienced such an incident, she is challenging this law on the basis that she might hypothetically possibly one day if precisely the right confluence of events should happen to fall together, no matter how unlikely that is,
This.
So for something completely hypothetical that hasn''r even happened?!

I expect this particular 14 year old is extremely worried, pissed off, angry, maybe even horrified.
We all know the shit that's happening in schools. She doesn't need to give her specific personal reasons to anyone.
Good luck to her.

Such a dilemma @Whatwouldscullydo

Not sure I can make up my mind

if you do a bit of reading around, the little we know of the young woman, girl, involved, she had very specific reasons for wanting to be heard. Given this update I doubt those reasons have gone away

I'm.always extremely confused about the double standards. How kids can apparently know exactly who amd what they are from. Toddlerhood. But teenagers simultaneously cannot know that something is wrong amd needs to be challenged legally and the adults around them.must be coaching/ encouraging them.

Which is it?

@CheeseMmmm if you do a bit of reading around, the little we know of the young woman, girl, involved, she had very specific reasons for wanting to be heard. Given this update I doubt those reasons have gone away.

Happily she has parents who are supporting her, who will have made decisions based on their situation. You may not like it, may think they are wrong. But they are not you and have chosen a different, more politically active life.

It’s a good time of year to look after the young saplings and support more mature arbours.

Digging is very therapeutic.

Artichokeleaves I agree. As someone who has tweens and teens who are afraid to speak out or exchange ideas in the classroom for fear that they get it wrong and are accused of hate. Citizenship has become more like censorship. How are they supposed to develop and learn when subjected to this. How do they become well adjusted and thoughtful adults when they are too scared of saying what someone else might perceive as the wrong thing. It's appalling. I will dig too. And I hope Miss B is successful.

artichoke

Spot on. If its important enough for the police etc and everyone to keep tweeting and dealing with then it's important enough to challenge. Can't have it both ways.

I'll dig out my shovel

You know what is shit for children? The female ones?

Being told they have no choice but to undress and shower alongside teenaged males, because the teenaged males want it and have feelings, and the female children's feelings about it don't matter . They are much less important than the male ones, and their bodies are not theirs to control for their own privacy, dignity and comfort, their bodies are something male children have a right to make use of.

That is shit. That is absolutely sickening. That is something that anyone who truly cares about children should be absolutely up in arms about.

We are telling female children that they cannot say no to a male, regardless of how it affects them or makes them feel, if saying no would be unkindly refusing the male an experience and access to them that the male would like.

It actively discriminates against girls who cannot share mixed sex spaces, and have no option but to subject themselves to all the shit and unpleasantness and being scolded for being prejudiced and unkind for not making special males happy over having their own trauma, disability, culture or faith catered for. The male gets included. The male is a magic person who makes the female children's inclusion rights vanish like snow off a hot brick; they're protected under the Equality Act until suddenly..... inclusion is something only for males, not females.

And female children are being told that if they argue about this, if they speak out for their equality of their own feelings and needs and access, their own inclusion, their right to not believe that a male child is something other than a male child who wishes to have a different identity, who does not believe that meeting the diverse needs of male children should remove all inclusion and privacy and dignity from female children who do not consent ?

They're being told the police could be involved.

This creates two castes of children: the ones who get to do whatever they want regardless of impact on others and be the centre of everyone else's service, and the ones who are allowed to do nothing but provide service and shut up or else.

If you're worried about what is shit for children, worry about that and not about whether a teenager is seeing all of this and hating it and wanting her voice to be heard. Against adults telling her to not pick up all that stress which might affect her exams and just submit quietly .

That is shit for children. That is truly shit.

I don't get it.

Unusual for 14yo to know about this legal process. To come up with theoretical situation and think I'll go to court.

Given theoretical. Wouldn't it be better for adult to do? I mean anyone could point this out and go to court. School.. why not work?.

V stressful and big thing 14. Likely time out of school, distraction heading into exam syllabus stuff.

It seems .. Not a thing most teens would do unless vv firm views from parents, and who got Harry involved and therefore money support etc?

Or rare teen like Greta T. In which case unstoppable. But still... Others must have linked into harry helped find someone to raise case etc.

I don't like the sound of this. In short. Most likely situation is down to others to pick up push along.

No need for 14yo to do it

Plus. Loads of all sorts of labels DD school. Views are ok obv. Having a group at school who chatting around school about presumably in short. Gender stuff bollocks. I mean they're right. But likelihood is. In context it's not a thing I would want DD doing with group in school when given found where others hear. Could well feel shit to other CHILDREN.

Not for me.

Not like this.

They really hate us when we cough up to defend our rights. And those comments themselves have encouraged more digging, thanks for drawing our attention BC

I was just thinking I was in a position to do a bit of digging...

Sounds like BlueberryCheezecake is a fully paid up member of the It'll Never Happen brigade.

No digging in the Garden of Common-Sense and Safeguarding is ever in vain.

Very shaky grounds for a challenge. Sounds like a lot of you are -once again- going to be digging in vain.

What, like we did for the FPFW vs ONS case?

The one that FPFW won and had a load of costs reimbursed meaning they could use the funds for all sort of other brilliant projects to help women.

Like that you mean?

Don't worry about that. I've got loads of cash. Well paid job you see.

Wait, what? You don't have to get the Man Of The House's permission before spending first? You earn your own money to spend on whatever you like? 😱

Very shaky grounds for a challenge. Sounds like a lot of you are -once again- going to be digging in vain. But Bloobs how is winning in vain ?

And you have totally misunderstood the nature of legal challenges. If you think you cannot bring one becaise you have not expereicned something. Ridiculous. She is challenging the legal basis of a law. The practicality of it. The ability of it the police to actually police it effectively. All hypothetical. And all precisely as it should be. This being a democracy where even 14 year old girls can have their voices heard.

The recording of ''non crime hate incidents'' is unlawful, so doesn't that mean that the APPHCG guidance is?

Whilst you're here blueberry, why don't you pop over to the poppers and sealions thread? Your input would be most welcome? No? Quelle Surprise! It's almost like you have no intellectual basis for your beliefs....

Very shaky grounds for a challenge. Sounds like a lot of you are -once again- going to be digging in vain.

Don't worry about that. I've got loads of cash. Well paid job you see.