Miss B , age 14, is challenging the College of Policing’s Guidance on Hate Crime

In saying that, I have a 15 year old that would fight for the freedom of speech too and has done so at their school regularly even at 14. They have been involved in bringing issues to the attention of the school for a few years.

To bring a court case to focus on the ramifications of “non-hate crime incident” reporting, is not outside the realm of a person of this age if they had the opportunity and support to do so.

A teenager who, no doubt, is being fulled supported by their family is prepared to take a political stand and being questioned for their ability. Yet, we are told time and time again that children are to be celebrated for believing they can change sex and deny material reality.

I am sure that this teenager will have their identity protected. They will not be making permanent and irreversible changes to their body. They are also asking for a court to make a judgement, so asking for a chance to present their case.

Are they being manipulated to do this? I would hope not and that should be carefully and sensitively confirmed.

BlueberryCheezecake I understand that a fun feature of this guidance is that there is absolutely no obligation on the police to inform the subject whether and when a non-crime hate incident had been recorded against their name, meaning that the subject is only likely to find out when it shows up on an enhanced DBS check if the police have chosen in their discretion to include it or if they are politically and legally savvy enough to submit a pre-emptive data subject access request to a given police force (as Sarah Phillimore did) or (to really know) to every police force in the country.

So when you say Miss B has "never experienced such an incident" and that it is "unlikely" to occur, I am curious to know how you reach that conclusion.

How many children have already been reported and recorded without their knowledge? No idea. They won't have been told, most will not yet have had caused to apply for an enhanced DBS check and will be extremely unlikely to regularly submit DSARs to their local police force just in case.

Bit of an issue if police decide in their discretion to include it on an enhanced DBS check when that child comes to apply for a job as a teacher or a carer, though, isn't it?

This.
So for something completely hypothetical that hasn''r even happened?!

Did you follow the Miller v College of Policing appeal? Read any articles after the recording of non-crime hate incidents were found to be unlawful?

Recording of so-called “non-crime hate incidents” by police forces in England is an unlawful interference with freedom of expression, the Court of Appeal has ruled.

The Home Office had also raised concerns, saying: “‘non-crime hate incidents’ have a chilling effect on free speech and potentially stop people expressing views legally and legitimately.

It's not hypothetical. The threat of police involvement is stopping people, including this girl, from expressing perfectly legal views.

He's crazy. What about the demonisation of girls who don't want to undress with males?

So for something completely hypothetical that hasn''r even happened?!

Yes, this is how laws work, you see. They are not worked out and applied after every instance of a A Bad Thing Happening. Clever people with important jobs think about how a law would work (a 'hypothetical' situation) and then discuss how the law might prevent that Bad Thing from Happening. Then they try to make the law as effective a prevention as possible.

We don't all just sit about waiting for Bad Things to happen and then go 'oh no waily waily what will we do', because that would be a bit silly.

HTH. Have a wee think, you'll get there eventually!

Text for screenreaders. This was someone's answer to the Staniland question.

I'm actually saying that you are demonising trans women with a penis by refusing to undress in an enclosed space with them.

This is the social environment that Miss B is growing up in. And Miss B is supposed to wait until someone does report her for resisting the social pressure?

No, we should be preventing people using legal means to subjugate women and girls!

Why is the focus always on women needing to sort out male issues?

Rapists are male. Women are told to take precautions rather than clear announcements to men than sexual attacks mean life in prison.

TW are men worried they will be attacked by men. Instead of men being told they must support TW in their spaces, women are told to accept men into their spaces.

Women and girls go to court to push back for rights that should not be in jeopardy.

How do we know if we have hate crimes reported against us?

And if we do how do we get rid of it

That poor girl. The smirking transwoman because they managed to destroy women's safeguards and get to be in the same place where girls undress. That's appalling.

Being told they have no choice but to undress and shower alongside teenaged males, because the teenaged males want it and have feelings,and the female children's feelings about it don't matter. They are much less important than the male ones, and their bodies are not theirs to control for their own privacy, dignity and comfort, their bodies are something male children have a right to make use of.

This. Why does a girl always have to suffer first due to these policies before we can act?

@EeeIcouldRipATissue I'd like to know what you think about this.

Text for people using screenreaders.

Upper Caption:

Chicago School District 211 Grants Transgender Students "Unrestricted Access" to Locker Rooms

Lower Caption:
After the School Board voted 5-2 to allow male students who identify as female into girls' locker rooms, two students reacted

Two passport-style photos of students. The left image shows a smiling teenager with pink hair and glasses. This is labelled with the quote
"I'm ecstatic"

and attributed to a [named] Transgender Student at the school.

The right image shows a sad-looking teenage girl with brown hair. This is labelled with

"I feel uncomfortable my privacy's being invaded. As a swimmer, I change multiple times, naked, in front of the other students in the locker room."

It is attributed to another [named] student at the school.

In vain?! If people only gave money to causes guaranteed a successful outcome, rather than something they believe in and support, what a miserable place we would be in, no hope at all. I’m more than happy to donate to causes I believe in, irrespective of the outcome, you don’t need to worry about me.

Sonia Appleby did okay too.

The one I’m most looking forward to is Allison Bailey’s case. If she wins that, will people wonder why they donated so much money to Stonewall?

So if you see a potential accident such as a toddler walking alone in the road by a blind corner do you wait until they are hit till you take action? Or do you challenge the parent looking the other way? And say oy! your kids in danger?

Because we are walking into male rule like it or not and it's going to kill people children are at risk

Personally I would rather act now than wait

@BlueberryCheezecake why do you think the 14 year old girl, who has legitimate concerns, should be prevented from taking this to court?

Otherwise, the "chilling effect" reigns, with the risk it will never be challenged formally because no-one dares move a foot out of line to be a test case. Why? Because it would require fighting a personal prosecution and filing for a review of the overarching policy at the same time.

But I think Blueberry and Eee see the ramifications of their preferred limit on use of judicial remedies as a feature, not a bug.

I don't think it would be possible for an adult to effectively bring this case. There are 14 year olds who have brought cases and our upcoming generation have had enough of policing and virtue signalling. One of my DGS believes this authoritarianism is doing more harm than good for equality

This ideology is harming our children especially girls, why can't they stand up against it?

My 13 year old and her friends can talk fairly fluently about the zillion genders and the like. She is very #bekind and we’ve argued about trans ideology before.

However when a boy in her year “came out” as trans with a new name and girl’s uniform she said was how cool it was and how the school guidance officer had talked to them all about being kind and accepting. She said she’d previously thought the transgirl was “just” gay and that he’d had an obvious crush on a boy who was popular and dismissive. She tried very hard to not use the “dead name”.

However, I could sense that in spite of what she said there was anxiety and I assured her that it’s the right thing to be kind to a troubled child but it was normal NOT be ok with the concept of this child with a penis intruding in their changing spaces, showers or toilets at school. I told her that even though SHE might be ok (although I could tell she wasn’t) there would be some girls who would feel very awkward, maybe for religious or cultural reasons or maybe if they had their period.

She relaxed after that. She swims a lot and is comfortable getting changed around other girls but not males. Given her specific school (not public) I don’t think that mixed sex changing will ever happen but she knows that if it does we would complain loudly. The transgirl currently changes in a 3rd space.

There is an exquisite awkwardness and self-consciousness to teenaged girls, no matter what they may say. People need to respect their boundaries. It makes sense that a girl of a similar age “gets it”,

I have a similarly aged DD who is likewise annoyed by the situation. Initially she had to keep calling friends different names (e.g. Sara is now Simon), then she had to listen as 'genders' were explained to her.

She distanced herself from those girls (in a girls school) and most of the time doesn't have to hear it about it. The threat is that a group in her class act as gender police, if someone says something factual and pro-science it could be turned on them.

This is why I'm delighted to hear about this court case and any movement towards freedom of speech.

artichokeleaves 👏🏻

So for something completely hypothetical that hasn''r even happened?

Yes

Its quite straight forward

Someone wants to bring a law in….fair enough

Others look at the law and think ‘ooooh thats a bit shit’

Others raise an objection to the law BEFORE its an actual law….also fair enough

Democracy in action

Well said Artichokeleaves both posts. This ideology is harming our children especially girls, why can't they stand up against it?

Sick of people telling us what we can and cannot care about.

I think this is pertinent. It shows how to deal with double bind situations.

images.app.goo.gl/QYK6Aq6WUxtpsG9E7

So, challenge in private and through official procedures. Namely, go straight to the legalisation. In the public arena use the 'how to deal with double bind steps'. Muster support only when you are sure you are in a safe space.