GDPR and lost "likes" on JKR's Twitter posts

I'm interested too pale as its unclear how you "test" for ROGD, which is a late onset diagnosis, against "actual trans kids" which seems to be implying children who were being referred when very young.

How does that disprove ROGD?

@ool0n there's a reason I used the phrase 'global phenomenon' in my last post. The huge rise is not limited to the UK. In regards to Sweden, I'll quote from the article linked below -

'The immediate trigger for Von Sivers’s themed week is a report from Sweden’s Board ofHealthand Welfare which confirmed a 1,500% rise between 2008 and 2018 in gender dysphoria diagnoses among 13- to 17-year-olds born as girls'.

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/22/ssweden-teenage-transgender-row-dysphoria-diagnoses-soar?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16425364803732&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fsociety%2F2020%2Ffeb%2F22%2Fssweden-teenage-transgender-row-dysphoria-diagnoses-soar

In terms of the UK, the concern is not merely the huge rise (commonly reported as 4400%) of children being referred to gender clinics but also the shift towards far more girls being referred, where previously the opposite was true. Quoted from the link given below -

'This shows that the pattern in the UK (where 2.8 natal girls are being referred for every 1 boy), is mirrored in a number of other developed countries:

• Tampere, Finland: 6.8 girls referred for every 1 boy

• Toronto, Canada: 1.8 girls referred for every 1 boy

• Amsterdam, Netherlands: 1.7 girls referred for every 1 boy'

www.gov.uk/government/news/government-set-to-begin-next-phase-of-gender-transition-research

[quote ool0n]Maybe you are unaware @WarriorN, but the "ROGD" hypothesis has been tested in peer reviewed science. Where researchers actually studied trans children (shock!) - something Litmann and "ROGD" proponents have never done - and found it to be completely without basis.
www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(21)01085-4/fulltext[/quote]
Thanks for this ool0n. My back ground is not in science. This is a really new study and I could do with it explained in layman's terms what it studied and what it found.

I have a certain amount of caution because of the language used on the Trans Youth CAN! website, but perhaps that is a feature of it being a Canadian research organisation.

Anyone know anything about them or aware of a critique of this research. It looks really interesting, I am just not sure what I am reading.

You're mixing it a bit, She recruited detransitioned people globally via that survey.

Other research has been around ROGD in the US medical system, including a piece detailing how teens had actually pressured / coerced peers into identifying as trans.

Described in "Gender a wider lens podcast" number 52.

@Waitwhat23 - the "huge rise" is entirely premised on the increase in referrals to Tavistock GIC. But it's levelled off in the last 4 years, dropped the last two.... Not exactly "huge" also when you consider the low estimates of trans people is about 1%, the numbers referred to the Tavistock are no where near that. Maybe if we're getting a real "explosion", not a manufactured moral panic, researchers will be interested?

Goodness theres a lot of appendage swinging going on.

I would agree with not clicking on links.

@sanluca I was about to say something very similar. There has been a massive increase in gender questioning teens, particularly teenage girls - the GIDS clinic mention this themselves on their website. One teenage family member of mine has 3 'transboys' in the surrounding streets of a tiny rural village. Another has a whole friendship group who are saying that they are trans.

What blows my mind is the seeming lack of curiosity from researchers to investigate the reasons behind this. Given the huge (global) phenomenon, you would expect to see research papers, journal articles, opinion pieces and graduate dissertations galore, examining the reasons and the mechanisms of what's going on. The lack of any research is baffling and concerning. The reasons could be a range of different things - better access to information, less stigma, peer pressure, more role models, the rise of social activism, etc etc. But there's no interest in investigating this. Why?

In terms of 'social contagion', we have all seen similar things in our own teenage years. When I was a teenager, the 'thing' was to claim you were bisexual. I've seen other posters say that when they were teenagers, the 'thing' was self harming or anorexia. However, this particular subject seems to be off limits for discussion and research.

@WarriorN - Litmann recruited for her previous Survey Monkey based study and her current one from certain websites. Rather biased ones in my opinion, but that's irrelevant as they were not limited to a particular country. So I believe you are wrong when you say she was just describing the "state of play" in the US. Her participants could be from any country, worldwide?

Littman describes the state of play in the US where healthcare is private, not the U.K. the gatekeeping is virtually non existent.

However, social media merges into one hence contagion across the waters.

It's not just GD, tics and self diagnosing a range of other neuro divergent or mental health difficulties are becoming common too, especially via tik tock.

@WarriorN - is it OK to click on your links, mixed messages here about not clicking on any and you then keep linking to stuff?

social media influence do seem to play a role in encouraging the current, unprecedented spike in transgender identification by teen girls;

No one particularly cares about the terminology; leaders of WPATH know there's an issue as outlined above.

More irony here around the idea that ROGD is "pseudoscience" when a person simply can't change sex and can't be the "wrong sex."

Anyway, if anyone hasn't seen it yet this is a good over view of current issues, including social contagion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=PBInNGgdF2M

@sanluca, Absolutely, although I'm at a loss to explain what issue you have with kids exploring their gender identity and changing their minds? Sounds like the "explosion" in goths at Leeds when I was there and Goth music was popular.

What Litmann is talking about is kids ending up at GICs, demanding treatment and medical transition. Presenting with gender dysphoria not, my friends are non-binary so I will be too, assuming you are correct. There's absolutely no evidence for that, not least that in your example's timeframe - from teens to finals - they'd be lucky to get a first appointment at a GIC. Let alone be treated in any meaningful way.

Given it is 3 years since the study, and still no evidence it exists, I'm personally very happy to call it pseudoscience.

Lack of research leads to lack of peer reviewed scientific evidence. I am left wondering why there is no research to the reason why there seems to be a social contagious element to self identifying transgender teens. We all know them.

The first ones in my teens circle of friends are quietly reverting back to their original pronouns, dropping the name change and stop policing everything someone else thinks. Does coincide with getting jobs, passing their finals and actually doing some studying. Now that would be good research material, don't you think?

An article by Katy Montgomerie wanging on about how irrelevant biological sex is?

That ain't gonna cut the mustard around here I'm afraid.

what's a 'trans child' ?

definition please?

So you also think "ROGD" can't exist then @BernardBlackMissesLangCleg? As how can kids suddenly decide they're trans incorrectly when "being trans" isn't even a possibility.

cor blimey o'reilly

what's a 'trans child'? I'd bloody live a definition of that

I know! So far in this thread, we have an anti-woman poster boasting about being involved in block lists and Katy Montgomerie being given as a source.

And as for ROGD not existing, there is a current phenomenon of whole friendship groups identifying as trans - I've seen it myself. Call it whatever you like - social contagion or peer pressure or something else but something is going on.

Maybe you are unaware @WarriorN, but the "ROGD" hypothesis has been tested in peer reviewed science. Where researchers actually studied trans children (shock!) - something Litmann and "ROGD" proponents have never done - and found it to be completely without basis.
www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(21)01085-4/fulltext

steady on! I don't know if I can handle the suspense!

@WarriorN "Bowers says it's real." -- appeal to authority

No one credible should say it is real when it has never been diagnosed in a trans child. True? When no study has ever studied the phenomenon in trans children. True?

No one should accept it is anything but a hypothesis until there are studies showing it exists. That's very basic 101 skepticism. Given it is 3 years since the study, and still no evidence it exists, I'm personally very happy to call it pseudoscience.

I don't think it would be a GDPR issue, but if I had some extra money, I think I'd be looking into whether it is lawful to deny access to a service to those who don't hold a specific set of beliefs (gender ideology) & why any company operating in the UK can operate in a discriminatory way.

Should we all let Arabella know that her waiting may soon be finally over?

has been excluding doctors who question current medical protocols to its detriment.

The trans movement really doesn't like anyone questioning current protocols, do they? Women especially.

Why would that be?