I am now very confused by the gender debate

Teenaged boys used to joke about imagining they had their own tits to play with.

Living the dream Linguini, living the dream!

I am still a relative newbie to all of this myself, was completely unaware all of this was going on till I read a thread on here a few months ago.

I've also read a few threads about new-borns and parents using the term gender, does this mean parents can now choose? I know some parents are disapointed at the babies sex so is gender now a way around that? It's quite concerning to be honest if that is the case.

Teenaged boys used to joke about imagining they had their own tits to play with.

Remember that poster who was with one of the political parties and some of us unfortunately looked at their twitter account and followed the profile link to their 'other' account.

That person was very proud of their nude pics and their erections and new breasts. I could be wrong, but I think elf ears were included somewhere.

Anyone who is still under the impression that male transitioners all hate their body has not yet discovered the growing porn segment of transitioned males very much loving their male genitals for other’s adult entertainment. Be careful when you are on twitter and want to see the profile of someone. You might not see something ‘safe for work’. Including some young transitioned males holding office in political parties !

I clicked on a profile the other night to see q picture of a individual in a black pleather corset, sitting bare-bottomed on the side of a bed, male genitalia clearly visible.

I wasn't expecting the naked lower half at all.

I saw a good meme:

Sexism = the woman should so the dishes
Feminism = anyone, woman or man, can do the dishes
Gender ID = if you're doing the dishes, you're a woman

🙄

OP your summary of the situation reflects what is currently going on. There has also been a huge issue of silencing women speaking about the issues. JKRowling being the best known. That probably best illuminates why so many simply go along with it.

Anyone who is still under the impression that male transitioners all hate their body has not yet discovered the growing porn segment of transitioned males very much loving their male genitals for other’s adult entertainment. Be careful when you are on twitter and want to see the profile of someone. You might not see something ‘safe for work’. Including some young transitioned males holding office in political parties !

Within this category of porn, there is also the very fast growing segment of transitioned males with functional penises masturbating in female toilets. Complete with the sounds of women and children in the background.

No. Once you understand that so few people have their penises removed, you understand that a lot of the mantras relies on people not knowing this. It is a load of bollocks tied in with the ‘most vulnerable and marginalised’ mantra.

Are trans people discriminated against? Yes. More than women and girls? That has yet to be proven, in my opinion.

Do some transitioned males hate their genitals? I am sure they do. But certainly a large growing number still love theirs. Even though they now like to put a label of ‘girl’ or ‘lady’ in front the word dick.

The "this is a medical condition" thing was laid deep into our consciousness a few years ago

They now use the evidence of differences of sexual development to prove that trans is a "born this way thing." Many don't really understand basic biology so don't question it.

It was gold sealed by conflating with LGB rights. (HOW are they the same thing?!)

So now people think "you can wear what you want as kids, you can do what you want to your body as an adult."

It's the only wayvv be the cognitive dissonance works. They've been carefully taught via public humiliation eg JKR that to not think this is really bad.

Voila.

Follow the fetish too.

Follow the money...

That sounds conspiracy like. But honestly, follow the money.

Gender isn’t “ assigned at birth “ in the Uk or on any country I know of. Sex ( not gender ) is determined at conception and observed at birth ( in 99.9%+ of babies ) .

There’s no legal definition of gender in Uk law. It would be hard to define because it’s all about a feeling in someone’s head and also because it differs across time and culture.

Most people who legally change their legal sex on their official paperwork ( so called gender reassignment ) do not undergo any surgery.

People may chose to present themselves in clothing / hair / fashions as the opposite sex. They may change their name or paperwork. They may have surgery or hormone treatment but of course they cannot change biological sex - that’s impossible.

I don’t understand what you mean by “ feel like I am a woman “? Can you explain what that means ( without reference to stereotypes please ) ?

OP wait until you find out that Stonewall have redefined 'gay' to mean 'same-gender attracted' rather than 'same-sex'. This is not by accident. Someone at Stonewall recently tweeted that being gay was same-sex attraction, then had to delete the tweet.

People have generally gone along with it because they thought, initially

• there were so few 'transgender' people that it didn't have any impact (they didn't consider potential impact on women)

• Organisations like Stonewall have pushed certain narratives hard.

One could speculate on other reasons but -

well. This board is monitored and posts are reported and certain things are not allowed to be discussed.

Here are a couple of threads that may be useful:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4059873-Deep-Dive-on-the-Dentons-document

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

You'll need your Kendal Mint Cake. Good luck. Send a flare if you have any questions.

be able

So in what scenario does someone need to identify as a different gender?

To able to qualify in an Olympic weight lighting competition when you’re an old, injured, mediocre competitor?

The recent report by the Women and Equalities committee on reform of the GRA said that they want to: "Remove the requirement for trans people to have lived in their acquired gender for two years" which "risks entrenching outdated and unacceptable gender stereotypes"

But they also believe that after a person has made a statutory declaration to live in their 'acquired gender': "It would also be possible to police statutory declarations more strictly, and to bring prosecutions for fraudulent declarations if it becomes apparent that the person had no real intention of living in the acquired gender."

So it's inappropriate for someone to 'live as their acquired gender' before getting a GRC, because it's all just stereotypes, but they think they would still be able to prosecute someone who wasn't 'living as their acquired gender' after getting a GRC. But how would they know?

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmselect/cmwomeq/977/report.html

This is the thing I have never been able to understand, OP.
What does "living as a woman" or "identifying as a woman" actually mean?
Nobody is ever able to give a sensible answer apart from maybe liking pink and princesses and glitter. Which is bollox.

The Emperor really doesn’t have any clothes…

Have had this experience recently. No sooner did I finish explaining to my adult sons grandma that him getting pink trainers from his fiance for Xmas didn't mean he was gay and no, people wouldn't assume he was gay, than I had to tell his aunt that they didn't mean he was trans.

I was assuming that it must all be a lot more complex than this hence why I didn’t seem to understand.

Absolutely! Me too! I have been asking on here, and elsewhere, for several years. Really basic stuff like 'ok, if woman isn't adult human female, what definition is proposed?'
Not a single logical answer. And that's just the first question.

Strip it back to what it is and it's nothing.

It's word salad.

There's a good example here of the sort of argument that takes place. The best effort they can do to define 'woman', and it's copied from a Twitter bot and makes no logical sense (and is possibly transphobic towards trans men, to boot).
letter.wiki/conversation/1232

Red, "woman" isn't a "gender identity" it's the noun used to describe human adults of the female sex.

Anyone interested in the concept of gender identity would do well to research the work of Dr John Money, specifically his experiments on David Reimer.

Op, what has been seen cannot be unseen. The emperor is buck naked, with cock and balls swinging in the breeze while everyone applauds his beautiful robes. Best of luck!

This series by The State Media is enlightening and a good primer.
youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkvq4A8DyDt3YzMTdlZfwjDNH3-iEV8hW

Anyone not very confused by all this is not paying enough attention.