Where are all the middle aged women who should be transitioning

And the era of Stonewall’s heyday (now long past), and AIDS. TQ+ is trying to re-write and constrain history. Time to ditch it.

What’s the evidence for Trans-kids, barley?

Women wearing trousers has not been controversial since the 30s and maybe earlier for women in some areas of life... but yes some offices etc had dress codes that forbid trousers even as recently as 1999 but certainly in the 80s it would be common to have a dress code that included skirt/tights/court shoes. Morrisons supermarket had this code in 1990. Trousers were not part of womens uniform and there was a weird hat too.
There were some high profile court cases which gradually rolled rules like this away. And I'm no legal expert but also our links to European employment law. Its a similar reason why smoking got banned.

This is why I really struggle with school uniforms really strict rules. But saying that my dc go to a school with strict rules and while they think tie length and blazers on in corridors is a bit daft..they quite like the uniform (I think why?!? Rules like that went out of workplaces at least 10 years ago!)
This is completely irrelevant to this debate. There is zero correlation to school uniform/co ed. There is a link to schools which have had a 'trans training programme' in, and how many trans kids there are. Trans orgs would say its because children then felt confident to 'come out'.

I don't think that.

Oops missed barleys school comment re trousers

Even that still happens in some schools….still wouldn’t say it makes women wearing trousers’ controversial, just some very stupid schools around

Women wearing trousers has never been controversial in my lifetime

No, this bit is ridiculous but i do agree with other posters that it wasn’t easy to come out as gay

I know one lad that did when we were in college and another that didn’t til he was in his late 20’s

Its still not easy for some now, a friend rang me in tears the other day because their child had come out as gay and there was a massive fallout in the family. The young adult knew the feelings of some in their family and i think it took a lot of bravery

Marilyn bit George's head off the other day - not sure they're speaking

I'm not sure why it is even relevant....but single sex schools went out of fashion in the 80s. But still remain for many church and grammer schools and also private. But from my limited knowledge it would seen this happened largely because evidence points to single sex schools for boys in state sector giving worst outcomes and is linked to data stats (as it happens those stats can be misleading). Weve several state boys schools in the wider area and they've recently gone co-ed because of falling registrations... the girls schools haven't because they're still hugely popular with parents and get very good results. Culturally some parents want their girls to be in a girls school.
But I don't see what that has to do with that. I return to my personal microcosm of skewed data and I went to a traditional mixed school with rules on clothing. No trousers but that was the norm. Girls wore skirts to school in the 80s... but the uniforms were a lot more lack than now. In 70s strict uniform wasn't a thing at all. Everyone in my area had an assortment of items vaguely in the right.colour. secondary school a bit stricter. But not like now. We could wear doc martens and have put tie how we liked, skirt whatever length stand no blazer. My school was a bit sh*t though to be fair. Anyway what the hell as that got to do with trans or lgbt! Everywhere was homophobic. I didn't even know gay people existed until age 13ish and then only as a slur. Your average 6 year old knows that now. Although occasionally my younger DC who is a young teen (and lives in Brighton FFS!) get asked how can she have 2 mums?! But the parents of said child are usually proper bigots so that's why.

The school uniform 'rules' have always varied between schools. If I thought the rules at my single-sex former grammar high school were ubiquitous everywhere I would be wrong (1980's + trousers part of uniform) or the previous one - huge co-ed in an unfashionable part of East Yorkshire. Actually an amazing school with extremely relaxed uniform code (and yes, trousers allowed for both sexes).
Saying otherwise just reflects a more narrow personal perspective, not a universal truth.

I think it's great btw that people like those I just mentioned, are so accepted, that they are able to really live their lives openly.

Great high profile inspirational examples of transgender reality. Some have fluid genders. Visibility so important for others who are gender fluid.

Eg

Girl mode, boy mode.
So what? No big deal.
Important to be true to yourself. No set rules.
It's just a lucky coincidence that boy mode days are frequent when performing a male acting role, visiting a country where women are obscenely oppressed for charity.

Similarly, when big top exec in international financial company.
I don't know but I'd imagine that boy mode feeling when get up. By sheer luck, often occurs when meetings with clients/execs from countries with a more 'traditional' outlook.

Winning women in business awards presumably for successes while in girl mode. Humbling really.

Pips being a T-Girl must also be rewarding for them. Although Google seems not to be celebrating that any more. Shame.

I'm dubious that will happen.

Often seems to be useful to marry a woman, have children, climb ladder in finance, army, IT, film industry, media, legal field, journalism etc.

THEN feel it's time to be true to themselves.

Well I'm sure not all at all. But strangely, that's usually the situation with those who are in public eye, v vocal, and get airtime.

Almost as if there was something going on, somehow, to mean that group v much column inches etc, and seen as people to listen to.

No idea what it is about them in particular that means more attention.

Sorry, I’m still laughing at this and want to reiterate this point.

barleybadminton thinks older males who have, shall we say, a particular presentation will soon be a thing of the past because the age of these males when they present is coming down to match the females presenting.😆😆

Terence t'tent darby fans, Marilyn fans, boy George...

Lol just got memory in gear!

80s popular men's hairstyles that I recall...

*Mullets

*Perms

*The Bouffant (exemplified by George Michael... Still sad he died so young)

*Flat top (hello vanilla ice! Lol he did think ice rink a couple years back... Wait for it... Vanilla ice on ice! 🤣🤣🍸

*OMG rats tails!!!

*Remember limahl?

I concede that unlikely many 50yo bank managers had hair like limahl.
But then. Not many did. Limahl was limahl. No one else going to be able to carry it off.

Did anyone say men routinely had long hair in 80s?

No. Why?

Because the entire male population of the UK were not young people/older teens who felt the need to copy the look of their fave bands.

And looking back. Long hair was more into 90s surely?

80s hair for men generally (biggest looks) was new romantic style. Still some punks about. Rude boy style 2 tone revival. Skinheads around, remember the NF big then we had NF pub in town. Metal/rock really big long hair bands obv. The hazey fantazie/dexy look. Mod revival.... And more.

So why would men of all ages across the country have routinely had long hair?

Are you thinking of the 70s flare suits and male fashion loads men longer hair than before and seen as shocking (Beatles etc)?

Missed a word out. It might have been collar length and slightly longer than is the norm now , but the rosy- tinted glasses are on full strength to insist long hair was common place.

I agree with Barley, male office workers, teachers, lecturers, bank managers, shop workers did not routinely have long hair. It might have been collar length and longer than is the norm , but the rosy- tinted glasses are on full strength to insist it was common place.

Fair few single sex schools in this part of London, plenty of mixed sex too.

What's that got to do with anything though?

That stuff about 80s surely v area dependent In little village somewhere or v macho area.. sure maybe. But...80s? Really? Generally? I can think of bands grew up in those years v small traditional areas and... Did their thing appearance wise!

And women girls in trousers outrageous I mean lol really that's so incredibly ludicrous. Just NOT TRUE. That it pretty much renders everything said on whole thread as questionable.

[quote barleybadminton]@foxgoosefinch

Haven't looked at this in details but it seems to show almost 90% of comprehensive schools were co-ed by 1977: sesc.hist.cam.ac.uk/2018/05/29/counting-co-education/[/quote]
I think you're right Barely. That also confirms what I thought would be the case and the reason for Scotland and Wales being over whelmingly co-ed in the state sector, and not just because of the rural demographics.

I would put money on there never having been single sex state schools in Aberdeen or Inverness, don't know about the other cities, beyond husband was at a co-ed state school in Glasgow.

Absolutely, Cheese.

Poster-

'It's almost as if there are many reasons why a teenage girl would like to cease being a teenage girl...'

Barley

'But that's not happenong anymore, it's a historical phenomena, the reasons for which are no doubt complex given the nature of society at the time. '

Straight up, in your face, bollocks. Utter drivel.

The insistence that women who were girls, have ZERO understanding of, insight into, no comprehension at all. Women on a feminist board. Women on a site dominated by female posters who have children. Yes including girls. Women who care about girls and pay attention to anything in the news or from charities etc etc about how girls feel, what problems they have etc...

It's basic fundamental rank misogyny. To dismiss anything that women say.

In particular if they are about 45+,

Or Feminists of the despised type

Or say things that men don't like hearing

Or insist they know better about women/girls than women/girls do

Or who just won't STFU and do as they're told...

It's so BORING. Tedious. Heard it all my life.

Regurgitating what men have expressed for.. ever? Nice look.

All this stuff shows to any lurkers is it's same old male supremacist shit repackaged in a shiny new box.

Was it, sorry..

When were we ever? Was I asleep that day...?

I have to say I have occasionally been tempted to tell my boss I’m transitioning and make everyone call me by male pronouns. I somehow suspect my pay would still not rocket upwards to close the gap with male colleagues, and nor would I be called on more often in meetings.

It might be worth a try though….seems to me like a failsafe way to get a lot of extra attentiveness to and for my feelings, for one thing. Being a lesbian woman is no good in the identity top trumps these days….

Just popped back in to check on this thread - I knew the basis of the argument was going to do a 180. Amazing how that happens with some posters, isn't it?