Where are all the middle aged women who should be transitioning

TheWeeDonkey - that reply made me laugh

Thank god for Mumsnet eh and the portal into reality.

It seems to be that it doesn’t matter who gets hurt or damaged as long as everyone falls in line with what they want.

Imagine if I had turned round and said to the person who called me trans and I just hadn’t realised it yet and told them that they were female and were just trying to live up to a narrow stereotype that went out of fashion 60 years ago

The problem I think is it is ok to call everyone anything but if anyone retaliates you would likely end up in court.

It does seem to be one rule for one and another rule for another and people have to dance around the edges to keep people who insult them happy.

^umbel
In the lesbian circles I know of, there have been a sizeable number or transitioners, of varying degrees - butch women adopting they/them pronouns, butch women having breasts removed, butch women taking testosterone microdoses, butch women declaring themselves to be trans men. All still same-sex attracted. I know of no straight middle aged feminine presenting straight women who have come out as trans gay men. Almost like it’s a completely different phenomenon to that happening in older men. Much more aligned to what is happening for young women - avoidance of critical male gaze, internalised homophobia, issues with body image.^
This quote is what I wanted to refer to....do you mean mature over-30s lesbians?

Yes, all well over 30. Some with kids.

'Caitlynn Jenner had been experimenting with her gender since the 80s including hornones and finally came out 7 years ago.'

When you say experimenting you're including stealing and wearing daughters underwear I assume?

And while googling to find the DDs knickers thing I came across this quote a few times.

'Caitlyn then gets more emotional, declaring 'They don't know that when I look into the mirror I see something entirely different, a body I loathe: a beard that is noticeable no matter how close the shave, a penis that is useless except for pissing in the woods.''

WTAF? How many children has CJ had?

I can tell you. SIX!

What a fucking ludicrous comment to make.

And... Surely a shit thing for the 6 children to hear. I mean clearly could well cause bafflement, upset, anger etc.

it's the over-sexualisation that's the issue. Or maybe it won't be in the future and the young women of today will be cool with that....

Fashions come and go. There was hardly a single boy in my school in the 70s who did not have long hair - in stark contrast to the short haired girls. Also, look at the big wigs, frock coats, makeup and coloured tights on men in Regency England. Maybe if we could focus more on the fashion elements.

Again this bizarre idea that a male human has to 'try' to be a man. He doesn't. He is a man just by existing.

It's trying to live up to being the stereotype of a man, which then just reinforces stereotypes for everyone else. But then honestly, how many women would be happy having a family with a man who dresses in over-sexualised "women's" clothes? Obviously David Beckham in his sarong has done okay, it's the over-sexualisation that's the issue. Or maybe it won't be in the future and the young women of today will be cool with that....

What ever happened to transvestites.
Those men who would go around the house in their wives clothing when she was out that we heard about when growing up. Usually when the wife came back early.

These were the ones who separated out their love for wearing female dresses and underwear from their heterosexuality.

Are you talking about mature over-30s lesbians becoming trans?

Telegraph columnist on chest-

'In fact – and I apologise if it’s toe-curling time again – I think my boobs are, well… pretty. They’re neat and round and because they’re so new and small, they don’t sag. I love how they feel, too, and the way I keep being reminded of their presence. I can’t see a flight of stairs, or an escalator on the Tube, without wanting to run up it two steps at a time. I like to come down fast, too. But it’s a very different experience when you suddenly have to clamp a hand across your chest to stop the jiggling'

'As I write these words, I am somewhere between a 36A and B. If I reach that B, I’ll be delighted. If I can’t, it’s not the end of the world. I absolutely don’t see the need for surgical enhancement.

I’m insecure, overcritical and self-hating about pretty much every aspect of my transitioning self. But my breasts and my long legs (the one big positive to being a six-footer) are the bits I don’t have to worry about.'

Breasts and legs. Long legs. Non saggy breasts. Good news

Googling for advice on development of chest. Useful info on sites used by pubescent girls.

'I googled away and up popped a site that gave me lots of reassuring information and added, ‘Even if your development is normal, it can be hard if you seem to be either the first or the last one among your classmates or friends to develop breasts.’

Ah, yes, fair enough. The people who ask questions like this are more likely to be girls aged 11 to 13, than men old enough to be their grandfather. There’s something weird, not to say toe-curlingly ‘eeeewww’, about a man of 60 who looks down and sees the breasts of an adolescent girl sprouting on his chest.'

.

If you read round stuff written by particular cohort of middle age male transitioners.

It's pretty obvious what majority driving force is.

Plenty of TW in that area are more than happy to write about it at length.

Even in mainstream. Person in telegraph whose name I forget for example. The piece about changing chest I remember in particular.

Gabbi Alon Tuft is an example of someone who was famous pre-transition. They came out after lockdown.

@OnlyTheTitosaurusOfTheIceberg I can’t stop thinking about the last bit of your post. the way you worded it has just polarised things for me. Where are the former forty something women who have led typical heterosexual lives, children, husbands, housework? These former women should now identify as middle aged trans men who are homosexual and present as a stereotypical embodiment of male homosexuality. Where are they?

“Greengate66

I do wonder if declining testosterone levels in middle aged men prompts them into thinking they are less manly than before and therefore women (aside from the paraphillia element which has to account for most of it).”

“Today 14:48 MrGHardy

I have asked this question many times, never received an answer.”

I have been wondering this too and asked earlier in the tread.

As a separate question, I am also curious as to how a woman might feel different, and possibly approach life differently, after taking testosterone.

Common traits seen in many of these late male transitioners is a stereotypical description of womanhood, appearance, clothing, etc. Do you think that males who feel this way will now be able to achieve these outcomes earlier in their lives?

And what is the relevance of this to the huge number of teenage girls seeking to transition?

I thought I was protecting my family and my marriage by trying so hard to be a real man.

Again this bizarre idea that a male human has to 'try' to be a man. He doesn't. He is a man just by existing.

There will always be late presenting males because of the common reason behind their presentation.

And what have you decided is the common reason behind their presentation?

[quote OldCrone]So where are all the middle aged men who should be transitioning (according to the logic of this thread)

To add to NotBad's list, David/Diana Thomas in the Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/transgender-diary-women-have-huge-privilege-compared-transwomen/[/quote]
Good example. These are not people who suddenly became trans but who have battled with who they are their entire lives. Thankfully trans women now feel able to come out much younger.

"By the time I was at university, I was seeing my first shrinks. They told me my feelings of being in the wrong body were just sexual fantasies, a phase I would get over. I was desperate to believe that was true.

"I wanted to be a husband and father. Those dreams came true, but none of them would have been possible had I transitioned back then. As a trans woman, I would have been a social outcast.

"So I do not regret my male life. The love I felt for my family was and always will be true. But it took a huge psychological effort to fight the battle against my true self.

"I was filled with shame, self-disgust, bursting with pent-up anger and unhappiness. And yet, ironically, I thought I was protecting my family and my marriage by trying so hard to be a real man."

What motivates these late male transitioned? Are you saying they won’t have to hide that in the future?

And again, how is the shifting demographics of late male transitioners relevant to the huge number of teenage girls seeking to transition?

Often they try to be men

They don't have to try to be men, they are men. A man is an adult male human.

So where are all the middle aged men who should be transitioning (according to the logic of this thread)

To add to NotBad's list, David/Diana Thomas in the Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/transgender-diary-women-have-huge-privilege-compared-transwomen/

It’s laughable for two reasons. First, that there won’t always be a group of males with a….particular view on what it means to be a woman who won’t want to realise this until later in their lives.

This is just nonsense. Late transitioners have usually lived their entire lives in shame and tried desperately to repress who they are because they grew up in a world that didn't tolerate them. Often they try to be men, get married, have kids, and don't want to blow up their families. It's no different to gays and lesbians who came out in middle age in the 80s, they didn't pretend to be straight because they wanted to get a career first but because they were frightened of what society would do to them if they came out. It's unspeakably cruel to attack someone who has never felt able to express who they are due to simple social bigotry and who finally finds the courage to come out late in life.

So where are all the middle aged men who should be transitioning (according to the logic of this thread)

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/nov/01/a-new-start-after-60-petra-wenham-transition-transgender

www.newyorker.com/video/watch/the-new-yorker-documentary-coming-out-as-a-trans-woman-at-fifty-eight

www.vox.com/the-highlight/2020/2/12/21075683/trans-coming-out-cost-of-womanhood-pink-tax

I’m laughing at the idea that you proposed the age of these males when they transition will come down therefore late, middle-aged males who fit a certain profile will be a thing of the past. It’s laughable for two reasons. First, that there won’t always be a group of males with a….particular view on what it means to be a woman who won’t want to realise this until later in their lives.

And second, the only truth that can validate your argument is the possibility that these males will have their….particular view on what it means to be a woman earlier in their lives. This isn’t the gotcha you think it is, it would just highlight how a certain clinical profile was becoming more socially acceptable to openly demonstrate at a younger age .

And it certainly in no way has any bearing whatsoever on why there are so many teenage girls and so few middle aged females.

Denying people's sexuality is against the Equality Act. Epitome of homophobia.