Let children of 12 alter legal gender ‘without a delay’ in Scotland

Children in Scotland run a national information and advice resource for children with SEN (Enquire). Many of these children are being failed in schools across Scotland. They even have factssheets advising about exclusion and school attendance anxiety/refusal, and point parents and children in the direction of court for disability discrimination. They know well how disabled children are excluded from education.

During the Scottish Government election they produced a manifesto. Under 'diversity' (which included disability) did they mention anything do to with disability? About improving access to education? Inclusion for these children? No. Their only point under diversity was to push the new Scottish Gov to amend the GRA.

Yes, for sure, ABHL. Agree with all of that.

'transitioning is almost like some magical solution that will solve all of their problems '

Yep. And if you listen to some of the detransitioners speaking out now, it doesn't.

It's not possible to be 'born in the wrong body'. What does that even mean? It's a very odd idea, if you look at it closely. Which part of the person is in the wrong body? I would say no part of us is outwith the body.

Suppose a 12 year old came to a councillor and said 'I don't like my nose and its making me feel self conscious and don't feel like I can be myself or be confident because of it and I want to get a nosejob'. I'd very much hope the councillor would not agree that plastic surgery was the right solution and would try to make the child feel more confident and to work out why they feel like they can't be themselves and help them to work through those issues
Then why is it different with gender, why is changing ones gender and potientially plastic surgery and/or hormone replacement therapy a potiential solution to this. Surely they should be trying to encourage that child into being able to feel like they can act in whatever way they want and love who they want and do what they want whatever their gender and shouldn't need this to be who they are.
Also is changing gender really going to solve these problems. It seems to me that transitioning is almost like some magical solution that will solve all of their problems when is it? People feeling like they can't act in the way they want or be comfortable without changing gender is a big problem but it is a problem with society and not with that person. Gender is a human created concept. I think them feeling this way is due to problems in society and not them 'being born in the wrong body'. They weren't born in the wrong body, they don't conform to society's expectations of someone with that body. The solution to this just shouldn't be for them to change their gender but for us to make changes to society and try to encourage and support them in acting in the way they want and being who they are without all of this. I don't think we should be normalising this as a solution. I don't think that gender should determine how you live. People often say that coming out as trans is brave and I agree with this. I think acknowledging that you feel uncomfortable being who you are in your body and that you don't conform to gender norms is incredibly brave. However I think it would be braver and better in the long term to say ok yes I don't conform to those expectations but to move past this and act in the ways you want without changing your gender.

'Children in Scotland is the national agency for voluntary, statutory and professional organisations and individuals working with children and their families. Established in 1983 as the Scottish Child and Family Alliance, it now has over 400 member organisations'

Shame on every board member at Children in Scotland for this dangerous nonsense.

12 year olds are not mini adults. They are children

Ffs Scottish government leave our children alone to grow up.

The SNPs one over-arching aim is independence, and they know that they are better able to get this if they can win the younger voters.

Definitely this. Although I think to some degree many parties have done this forever. I remember my friends mum pointing this out to me over 30 years ago that they target the young person's vote (when one particular party came knocking on the door to talk people into voting for them). Of course I was totally offended that she thought young people couldn't make up their own mind. I was 17. I didn't know the lengths people will go to in order to get what they want. And I didn't have enough facts to make a balanced decision. Political parties know this. Adults know this. At 17 I certainly didn't. Friends mum was actually supported the party in question, and was reflecting on the tactics they were employing.

One thing that occurs to me is that the SNP have been accused several times of trying to come between parents and children, or inserting themselves in families.

Yes smashing up the protections families provide does make people more vulnerable whilst increasing government power. I have no doubt this approach is deliberate.

That is so uncivilized. I think genital removal should proceed at age 2. Just in case.

This at the same time as a survey in school about sexual practices which is not anonymous and offers no support to children who are disclosing sexual abuse? And if my son were to say on it that he was sexually active with a 14 year old classmate he'd be admitting a serious crime?

Aye, right.

There will be civil unrest over this. I will do more than email or march against a government which is attempting to groom my kids in plain sight.

• wrt SNP policy, I am thinking of the 'named person' legislation, but also the recent 'hate crime' bill.

Older people tend to be more conservative (probably both small and large c) and resistant to change. They are more anti-independence and far more cautious about implementing sweeping change.

The SNPs one over-arching aim is independence, and they know that they are better able to get this if they can win the younger voters.

They consistently appeal to 'the youth', have lowered the age for voting, Sturgeon goes on and on about how older people will all die off soon (to Sturgeon's benefit re independence).

The SNP are perhaps trying to reach directly to young people, circumventing the older family members.

Wedges, division ...

I don't know what to say to this.

WHY?

To what bloody end?

Yet somehow becoming a son and brother instead of a daughter and sister is not going to have any negative effect

Everything surrounding this seems to be side effect/negative result free.

In reality, even water can kill you of yiu drink.enough of it. Calpol Every parents cupboard staple. Still lists side effects. There is nothing on this earth that can't hurt/harm u if you consume/r exposed to too.much or too.little of it.

Yet transition related drugs, drugs that incidents were deemed too problematic to give to sex offenders in prison, are amongst the safest in the world. So safe in fact that long term follow ups don't even.appear to be required🤔

For some reason the same people heavily invested In facilitating transition of children both socially and medically, are also.heavily invested in preventing further investigations/medical.research/therapy etc from happening.

Why, one.might ask, are trabs children not permitted thr sake.level of scrutiny research amd caution and safeguarding as everyone else.

What could possibly happen if we started trying to.make damn sure what we were doing was the right thing istead of immediately affirming without medical or even.parebtal.supervision. what are people afraid of exactly?

Any other treatment protocol, well one persons choice of not taking chemo therapy is never taken as a personal attack on someone.else deciding to take the chemo.

But again, denial of action on one child is some how an attack on all trans kids. Like these children seem.to only exist to validate the decisions of everyone else. Why ate they being given that responsibility..if the adults are so sure their opinions and choices are the right thing for them, what does it matter if a 12 year old doesn't do the same thing?

The single biggest indication that a child will continue to transition is social transition.

Also, on this, social transition is often described as harmless, and anyone in opposition to it is painted as unreasonable.
But we know that children find it difficult when a sibling is born and they aren't the only child or the youngest anymore. We know children find it difficult when their parents split up. When a step-parent comes along. When they move house. When they move schools.

Yet somehow becoming a son and brother instead of a daughter and sister is not going to have any negative effect. Referring to the old self as a "dead name" and pretending to be a new person is not going to have any negative effect. Re-introducing oneself to everyone as a new person, new name, new pronouns - that's all fine too. Plus the stress of worrying whether people will comply, whether people will remember, whether people will take it all seriously - none of that is going to have a negative psychological effect? It sounds incredibly stressful to me.

No child wants to look stupid. Children like to be taken seriously and not be laughed at. So the pressure to persevere once a social transition has been made public is huge.

Why is there pressure on children to make their new-found identities permanent? Why is there pressure on children to come out as gay even? Who the hell needs to know who an eleven year old fancies in theory or how they feel about their sexed body?

I've said it before - women who are happily getting married to a man they love often find it disconcerting having to change their surname (obviously not mandatory to do so but most do) and those are grown adults entering into a marriage voluntarily, making an expected and socially acceptable change. But somehow changing your name, your position in the family, and reinventing your history causes no issues?

People who emigrate voluntarily have issues around feeling like they belong elsewhere but have lost touch with their country of birth. People with parents from different countries or races sometimes struggle to find that sense of belonging also. It's normal to want to fit in, it's normal to want to be able to rely on some facts remaining unchangeable. Hell even East Germans felt weird at becoming just Germans after reunification, and felt their shared history growing up in the DDR was whitewashed over, hence a healthy market for DDR nostalgia continuing to exist.

I'm sure in a few years we will see detransitioners who feel that their parents contributed to their lack of sense of self by readily ditching their existing identity and playing along with a new one/several new ones. How can you feel unconditionally accepted by your mother as Olivia Jackson when she also accepted you as Kai and as Alex? Do we really think children aren't attached to their name and their place in the world, and that they are resilient enough to reinvent themselves without any issues? When adults aren't?

If a child can consent to altering their body, they can consent to sex with adults. That's the end game here. It always has been. And it fucking sticks in my craw that the LGB community - my community - has been hijacked to promote this agenda.

This! And we're going to suffer the backlash when the public links it all to homosexuals and bisexuals

I find it bizarre that the snp are pushing this to such an extreme level. I would never vote for independence anyway, but you would think they would try to avoid anything too controversial until they got it through. Is it just that the SNP and Scottish Greens naturally attract the “unconventional” to become politicians. At least with the SNP there is no thinking required -you just say what you’re told to say and stick to the party line.

There's some big money behind population control, but politically you can't advocate for a one or two child model in the West. But the infertility side effects of puberty blockers and csh are effectively neutering a cohort of young people

There's a specific cohort of children that are significantly represented . More so than.in general.society.

A certain spokes person of a certain charity also has tweeted their thoughts re symptoms. With autism/adhd etc featured. So transition also being touted as a " cure " for these conditions.

I suspect some of those pushing this won’t stand up to much scrutiny. I also suspect that none of them have actually have a child - world you 100% trust a 12 year old to feed the cat? Do they not know how fads and trends work with children - let alone the thrill of doing something outrageous purely to hack off your parents?

I do wonder whether this goes a bit further than lowering the age of consent. On the odd occasion when a tin foil hat materialises on my head (usually just after reading yet another WTF news story), I wonder if this is about population reduction through the infertility side effects of an "informed consent" model to change gender.

There's some big money behind population control, but politically you can't advocate for a one or two child model in the West. But the infertility side effects of puberty blockers and csh are effectively neutering a cohort of young people.

I want to make an insightful comment but all I can come up with is WTAF? 12 year olds cannot consent to this. I echo the thoughts of PPs, who benefits from this? It's so sinister.

12?? 🤬

At 12, my DC were just walking to school on their own and trying not to forget their lunchbox. They still, several years on, need reminding to take a raincoat. Hell, one of them still hasn’t learned to swallow paracetamol and needs Calpol instead. One day they love avocados, the next they hate them. They can be as fickle as toddlers. THEY DON’T KNOW THEIR OWN MINDS.,

This is so absurd, I can scarcely believe it’s true.