Page 3 | Screw C4 drama

IvyTwines · 14/01/2022 09:13

@Apollo441

You know, with numerous programs and films like Buffy and the Marvel movies I think that people have come to believe that women are just as strong as men. As women are less routinely assaulted these days (a very good thing) there is little to remind them of just how vulnerable they are. I truley hope these women live their lives without ever encountering the reality of male physical violence but their naivety is a hindrance to safeguarding women and girls in general and they are useful allies to MRAs..

This is a great point. And they are storylines mostly written by men.

IvyTwines · 14/01/2022 09:10

@EishetChayil

The propaganda started years ago, with sweet and gentle Hayley Cropper. Hence the prevailing view in society that transwomen could never be violent AGPs and fetishists.

I think it was the same writer, a transwoman, who did (or advised) the Coronation Street character and the Hollyoaks 'transwoman bullied by feminists in prison' plotline.

Truthlikeness · 14/01/2022 09:05

If I recall from some of the released prison stats, there is not a single transman housed in the male prison estate in the UK as it's far too dangerous.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 14/01/2022 09:00

I agree, @AZFell. I have very mixed feelings about the series, having now watched all six episodes. I imagine there's going to be a series 2.

We were told:

the transman (Troy Walker) had a GRC so nobody in the prison could be told Troy was trans

It was implied that Troy had had SRS as well as taking hormones and having had a double mastectomy (judging by body shape)

Troy was medically examined on arrival and the healthcare worker didn't spot anything unusual, or at any rate didn't pass that information on to the wing

Troy was sharing a cell with another inmate and using communal showers and none of the inmates had clocked Troy was trans

Riley Carter who played Troy is a transman and I agree Riley passes very well for male, but it really irked me that there was a kneejerk response from all the more likeable characters that of course Troy was a man and needed to be in a male prison, and the only one objecting was the neanderthal 'PC gone mad' character. Not a word about possible sexual violence. Ridiculously unrealistic.

AZFell · 14/01/2022 08:02

The realities of taking a beating like that aside (and there were plenty of unrealistic scenes throughout) -

It wasn't supposed to be feel good imo. It was supposed to highlight how the trans character has been brainwashed by ideas of toxic masculinity- the idea that to be a man, you have to be tough - compounded by the prisoners' hierarchy system because once the other prisoners knew he had survived the fight (and didn't lose face by not showing or "losing" the fight because it was stopped by a guard), he gained the respect of the rest of the prison population, who had no idea he was trans.

The theme of what it means to be a man was all through the show - the impact the job had on the male guards and how they won't/can't show emotion about it, the guard who had fought in the Falklands ("a real war"), the younger prisoner who was being forced by a gang to kill another, the fact that a woman took on the job of "saving" her younger brother who got involved in a gang, the prisoner who was grieving for a child silently which makes him vulnerable to radicalisation, prisoners hiding mental health issues, the governor (male) hiding in an office when a riot starts while female guards have to jump straight in to stopping it... all the way through, I thought the show was highlighting the stereotypes of being a man and questioning or showing the effect of them.

EishetChayil · 14/01/2022 07:53

The propaganda started years ago, with sweet and gentle Hayley Cropper. Hence the prevailing view in society that transwomen could never be violent AGPs and fetishists.

ArabellaScott · 14/01/2022 07:42

the pivotal scene was the character being pumelled by the prison's 'hardman' in a locked prison cell and 'handling' it and therefore being the 'man' they truly were. I think it was supposed to be a 'feel good' moment.

Grim on so many levels.

Ahoyashipg · 14/01/2022 07:37

@VelvetChairGirl

Men have 15%+ more muscle mass then women because their muscle tissue is denser anyone who doesnt know that is an idiot, no woman can go toe to toe with a man.

my ex was tiny and no taller then me, he had a vice like grip, he could lift me up and my best defense was my legs, my arms were useless against him and I am no weakling, I was still picking my son up when he was half my weight, I lifted weights more then I do today and did 100 sit ups a day. the ex did none of that.

and their punch strength is upto 300% that of a womans, just look at that trans who broke a womans eyesocket and cheek bone in MMA

There was a thread over Christmas (subsequently deleted) where a woman asserted that she was able to punch as strongly, if not stronger as 80-90% of men. She admitted to being a small woman but was still completely confident that her punching strength would be comparable. She was not a trained fighter of any sort. Bonkers. I truly hope she's never in a position to find out how big the strength difference is in reality, even against small men who look 'harmless'.

VelvetChairGirl · 14/01/2022 07:28

Men have 15%+ more muscle mass then women because their muscle tissue is denser anyone who doesnt know that is an idiot, no woman can go toe to toe with a man.

my ex was tiny and no taller then me, he had a vice like grip, he could lift me up and my best defense was my legs, my arms were useless against him and I am no weakling, I was still picking my son up when he was half my weight, I lifted weights more then I do today and did 100 sit ups a day. the ex did none of that.

and their punch strength is upto 300% that of a womans, just look at that trans who broke a womans eyesocket and cheek bone in MMA

ACambsWoman · 14/01/2022 07:13

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Totalwasteofpaper · 14/01/2022 04:39

@SceneDrama

Prison drama. Trans man inmate storyline. Actor that plays Trans man inmate 'passes' and I doubt anyone would have noticed unless they recognised Riley from East Ender's. I thought this was interesting and wondered whether their trans status would be made an issue or whether Riley would just be allowed to be a male character.

But no. The 'trans' aspect of this character was focussed upon and there was some very, very heavy-handed, clunky, shoe- horned dialogue. A female prison officer lecturing another prison officer about 'gender' and how a male person can be born into 'the wrong body'.Lots of eyerolling towards people struggling to feel comfortable with a female-born person being incarcerated in a male prison.

And the pivotal scene was the character being pumelled by the prison's 'hardman' in a locked prison cell and 'handling' it and therefore being the 'man' they truly were. I think it was supposed to be a 'feel good' moment.

All I thought was that in reality, that transman would have been slaughtered and downed by the first punch from the hard man who was 3 times the size of the Trans man. And I thought - is this really the issue in prisons at the moment? That we shouldn't be discriminatory and should be housing transmen in male prisons?

Aren't we missing the real issue with prisons - that male bodied people are being housed in women's prisons?

And am I missing something here - should we be campaigning for trans men to be housed in men's prisons? Is there a ground swell of opinion for this to happen?

Or is this just obfuscation and a bad, bad, drama? Riley was a great actor BTW but I really wonder whether Riley would truly feel happy about being in a prison cell with the hard man who was three times their size. I doubt that in real life they'd walk away with just a bloodied nose.

This is exactly how I felt watching it.

And the "Oh no! I am being made to go a woman's prison noooooo " made me eye roll so hard because in reality youd be fucking delighted not to be getting raped and beaten to escape and be put with a load of women

CheeseMmmm · 14/01/2022 04:16

Not seen it.

It's about a transman in a men's prison?

Is that right?

But transmen are always in women's prisons due to the massive risk to them.

????

SantaClawsServiette · 14/01/2022 02:14

Yes, it's not just films and assaults, it's the lack of physical labour for many people.

If you are doing heavy work quite often with mixed groups, you very quickly see that men are stronger. It's not even just a lot of men, it is most men are a good deal stronger than most women. But get a mixed group doing something like woods work, or shoveling buckets of gravel, etc, it becomes clear fast that even fairly unfit men are often a lot stronger than many fit women.

Delphinium20 · 14/01/2022 01:46

@Apollo441

You know, with numerous programs and films like Buffy and the Marvel movies I think that people have come to believe that women are just as strong as men. As women are less routinely assaulted these days (a very good thing) there is little to remind them of just how vulnerable they are. I truley hope these women live their lives without ever encountering the reality of male physical violence but their naivety is a hindrance to safeguarding women and girls in general and they are useful allies to MRAs..

Agree! I made this comment once to a friend who complimented my DD who is rather athletic. I said, "I worry for her when she takes the bus alone." And my friend, a woman, said in all sincerity, "DD is stronger than most men. She'll hold her own like Superwoman." I love seeing women fighters in dramas but we do seem to forget the power of a man's punch.

Apollo441 · 14/01/2022 00:50

You know, with numerous programs and films like Buffy and the Marvel movies I think that people have come to believe that women are just as strong as men. As women are less routinely assaulted these days (a very good thing) there is little to remind them of just how vulnerable they are. I truley hope these women live their lives without ever encountering the reality of male physical violence but their naivety is a hindrance to safeguarding women and girls in general and they are useful allies to MRAs..

yourhairiswinterfire · 14/01/2022 00:41

All I thought was that in reality, that transman would have been slaughtered and downed by the first punch from the hard man who was 3 times the size of the Trans man.

It was ridiculous, there's no way he'd be getting back up after that beating.

Channel 4 have form for this. There was a TW in Hollyoaks, in prison for murder, getting beat up and IIRC hospitalised by some women. Right after the judgement for the MoJ judicial review, brought by a woman sexually assaulted by a male prisoner in a female prison..

To be fair to them, the timing was coincidental with that one as soaps are filmed months in advance. They can still piss off with their propaganda, though.