Gender nonsense will be the Tories secret weapon

Every new target brings things closer to point of critical mass when the gender critical movement has attacked so many different groups and individuals, and often so baselessly, that nobody will want to associate themselves with it.

You are deluded. Exchange Gender Critical for TRA in that paragraph and you’ll be onto something.

Women (and men) are absolutely sick of this crap. High profile idiots who are spouting all the genderwoo stuff on Twitter are getting completely ratio'd.

They are, there is quite the angry mob on twitter at the moment. The thing is they don't change anyone's minds, quite the opposite. All that ranting against Girl Guides, or Oxfam or John Lewis does, and accusing them of all manner of horrors, is completely alienate them from the gender critical cause. More and more people, including Wes Streeting are now acknowledging the viciousness and bullying that comes from some parts of gender critical social media, and all these targets have friends, colleagues, often people with significant power.

Every new target brings things closer to point of critical mass when the gender critical movement has attacked so many different groups and individuals, and often so baselessly, that nobody will want to associate themselves with it. And that's really reflected in a lot of people I know, who did have some sympathy a few years ago but have seen how extreme and nasty the movement has become and now condemn it outright. Don't mistake twitters pile ons as victories, all that's happening is the GC movement is making more and more enemies.

Agree RoyalCorgi, that's the problem.
The gradual erosion of women's rights, in place of what is in reality more mens rights. I just can't fathom why so many people can't see what is happening. Maybe It's the underlying threatening message (directed at women) present in the zeitgeist that if you air any doubt or concern around the removal of women's rights that you somehow, "don't like trans people" are transphobic and should be burnt at the stake.
NOT the fucking issue, this is about women's reality in life being removed with very little opposition. Wake up people!!

Oh and despite the shit show that is out current government I sadly see no-one else I can vote for now that labour, lib dems and green have shown that they do not care about protecting women's rights. I can't vote for a party which displays its misogyny with pride.

You know women's rights is far bigger than you not liking trans people don't you? What is Liz Truss' voting record on employment rights, benefit cuts, cuts to public services and healthcare? They all affect women far more than any trans woman will.

You've completely misunderstood the issues. Trans women themselves will not affect women at all if they continue to be seen as trans women who are a subset of males and if they are treated as such. What will affect women is the pretence that they now are women. This creates a situation where we no longer have language to describe women, to collate data about inequalities or to understand the experience of women who are being discriminated about across the globe on the basis of their biology. The expectation that people remember a large list of their body parts (vagina, cervix, ovaries) in order to access the appropriate healthcare will also lead to the death of some women. There is nothing that can affect women more than saying there no longer are women.

I'm no longer convinced that the Tories care less about women's lives than the opposition groups. I look at the Labour Party and see a really sexist, intolerant organisation.

[quote LondonWolf]@barleybadminton

You and your ilk are flailing. I see it all the time. On Twitter especially when some of your most notorious and aggressive advocates are quietening and turning their attention to other political matters - see LOJ, they know it’s a lost cause. See also the police who are having to quietly withdraw their attempts to prosecute for “hate speech”, the investigative podcasts, the steady increasing in the dropping of Stonewall by multiple high profile organisations, the mainstream discussion now where once it was hidden and people were too fearful to speak up, JKR has helped to wake up millions, Posie Parker who even my 18 year old teen and his mates have heard of and follow. Even here, there was a time when a thread such as this would have been fairly evenly split but now just has one or two die hards like yourself, even when they’re posted on the main boards. Sure you’ll be thrown a golden globe or two but it’s all downhill from here for you and I for one couldn’t be happier.[/quote]
Yes @LondonWolf! Applauds!!

Women (and men) are absolutely sick of this crap. High profile idiots who are spouting all the genderwoo stuff on Twitter are getting completely ratio'd.

The Emperor Has No Clothes!

And please don’t bother whining about PP receiving financial support/bribes from US right wing/fundamental Christian groups. I hear she’s suing anyone who says this, so…

@barleybadminton

You and your ilk are flailing. I see it all the time. On Twitter especially when some of your most notorious and aggressive advocates are quietening and turning their attention to other political matters - see LOJ, they know it’s a lost cause. See also the police who are having to quietly withdraw their attempts to prosecute for “hate speech”, the investigative podcasts, the steady increasing in the dropping of Stonewall by multiple high profile organisations, the mainstream discussion now where once it was hidden and people were too fearful to speak up, JKR has helped to wake up millions, Posie Parker who even my 18 year old teen and his mates have heard of and follow. Even here, there was a time when a thread such as this would have been fairly evenly split but now just has one or two die hards like yourself, even when they’re posted on the main boards. Sure you’ll be thrown a golden globe or two but it’s all downhill from here for you and I for one couldn’t be happier.

The Tories will use it like the Republicans use abortion in the states- to twist people into voting against their own interests.

It’s not like they care about women’s rights or women’s lives. It’s just a convenient fulcrum.

That’s why there has been so much interested in making this area a polarised and bitter zero sum game.

Locking the women and the trans people ina gladiatorial fight means no disruption to who holds the power and a juicy little spectacle to enjoy watching to boot.

As one of the early responses said and has been repeated, there are no women's rights if men can be women. That people can even consider supporting a party that will allow men to be women is truly horrifying.

Women are realising the consequences of all this and my god, are they angry!

@KettyLeMew I applaud you, you say what I’m thinking at last someone who says the truth about what’s happening to this country. Thankyou👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Self ID will pass in even more countries with no significant consequences for women.

You think that what has been happening in Ireland, Canada and the US is 'no significant consequences for women'?

Says it all really I guess........

Totally agree.

Wes Streetings comments the other day do seem to signal that Labour has fucking finally realised that the 'we don't want your bigoted vote anyway' tactic is never going to win an election. But they need to act quickly now if they want to turn around the absolute mess they have created wrt alienating half the electorate by basically saying they don't give a shit about women's rights.

Ignored the rest of my post I see. No surprise really. There's no excuses that will wash when your ok with women being stuck in prison with rapists.

I think the key thing is that it’s almost impossible to respect someone who spouts genderwoo

That's it, allmywhat. I used to rate Lisa Nandy. Now I'd find it hard to look her in the eye if I met her. And when it's a male MP spouting off, like David Lammy, I just assume they are mysoginists. My own MP has thrown aside her principles and hides behind 'as Keir Starmer said'. Pathetic. I feel real contempt for them.

Once even more damage is done to women's rights by the introduction of self-ID and more and more people are aware of what it means, it will be even more difficult and take years, if ever, to roll it back.

Fwiw you live in a blinkered world, out here in the real world people are pissed off about this men included and people are waking up the the scale of damage that is being inflicted. The tide is turning of that I have no doubt.

Believe me I know about the 'men included' bit, they fast seem to be dominating this particular offshoot of feminism.

My levity is really only intended to mask my horror at the world some people want and the impact that would have on women. That people can even consider supporting the Tory Party in the name of feminism is truly horrifying given how they have demolished the lives of many lone mothers and other women. I do not believe trans rights pose a threat to women. I believe gender critical ideology and the willingness of gender critical feminists to support the conservative right does.

I think the key thing is that it’s almost impossible to respect someone who spouts genderwoo. And that’s true whether you’re unfamiliar with it, and think it’s horseshit, or you’re very familiar with it, and know it’s horseshit, and even for a good chunk of people in between.

And I do also think people want to respect their political leaders on some level. I suspect contempt to be a killer for political aspirations the same way it’s a relationship killer. I also think the degree of public contempt for gender woo peddlers is growing all the time.

Fwiw you live in a blinkered world, out here in the real world people are pissed off about this men included and people are waking up the the scale of damage that is being inflicted. The tide is turning of that I have no doubt.

It won’t be enough by itself, but when they get rid of Boris, and get a new leader in so it looks like things have changed, getting Keir and the rest of them to beclown themselves by saying a few more stupid things about cervices will help put them over the edge.

Nobody wants to be governed by clowns.

Imagine where we will be in a year or two.

Over I imagine. Just look at the global outpouring of support after MJ Rodriguez won a Golden Globe - it's clear which way the world is heading and even younger members of the Tory Party are waking up to that.

The right wing press will probably get bored in the next year or so and decide to pick on someone else, they are clearly running out of steam. Self ID will pass in even more countries with no significant consequences for women. The more moderates and leftists will drift away from the GC movement as it becomes ever more extreme - you can a;ready see this happening with Ruth Serwotka's recent comments. The splits and infighting will intensify, the far right will be all over things attempting to recruit, there'll be a couple of humiliating losses in the courts and the younger generation of trans inclusive feminists will start taking up their places in the media, political parties, think tanks and women's organisations.

I think it's safe to say the gender critical movement has peaked, and unless Johnson quits and we end up with someone even further to the right in charge of the Tories then there will be no legislation in support of GC demands. I'm sure the diehards will remain and become ever more extreme in both their tactics and ideology but this issue has had 6/7 years to resonate with the public now and it hasn't really flown. Even Murdoch is likely to get bored. Still you'll always have Putin.

Labour are going to have to either wise up to this issue or face being the party of eternal opposition.