Gender nonsense will be the Tories secret weapon

My thoughts exactly. Barley seems to be wasting an awful lot of effort on the pitiful, doomed death throes of our movement...

The lesbian and gay movement weren’t targeting children

That's exactly what they were accused of doing, what do you think Section 28 was about.

their movement didn’t involve pushing them down paths of life long medication and painful surgeries on already healthy bodies.

No they were accused of luring children into a 'gay lifestyle' where they would take drugs, have deviant sex and get AIDS.

They didn’t demand any changes in language Are you having a laugh? Many of the older generation were furious that a word that once meant happy and carefree was now used to mean sexual deviance as they saw it.

They didn’t want to change society, they just wanted to play an equal part in the society which was already there.

Have you ever read any radical lesbian literature from the period or looked at some of the agitprop that was produced at that time? The lesbian and gay movement was revolutionary in nature and many sought to overturn everything from capitalism to the nuclear family.

All that post says is that you know nothing about the struggle for LGB rights.

Yeah see the lesbian and gay movement for details. Oh ...

yeah because there is absolutely no evidence of an anti-lesbian and anti-gay backlash happening since gay marriage was achieved... Oh...

But ultimately, there'll be a backlash to that backlash. Indeed, that is already happening. Because the moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice. And it bends towards truth. A movement founded on 2+2=5, or on any other logical contradiction or lie, can flourish for a time (only a short time, given the speed of cultural change these days) and will maybe have roots forever in some dank and seedy corners of the culture, but truth always finds a way, no matter how hard zealots and tyrants try to clamp down on free speech.

There are four lights. 2+2=4. The emperor is stark raving bollock naked. Transwomen are male. Deal with it.

Really? You write awfully long posts for someone here to spectate

I am laughing at these attempts. These statements are so off the the truth but obviously it is wishful thinking.

Just like the statements such as : working class women are not concerned about this - like this poster is an authority on working class women …. because they know some.

Yet, not once has shared a definition of what they are describing as working class. And ignoring the working class women posters on this board, and those women with working class backgrounds.

Now, we get a litany of events that have ‘missed’ the mark in changing the world.

I think some posters actually need to get out and speak to people across different communities. Due to Hubbard, I have had more conversations with people now read up on women’s sports than ever.

Thanks to Joanne Rowling, I have had numerous conversations about what it all meant with very confused parents.

Thanks to Keira Bell, and Dr Stock there has been conversations started by people expressing horror at what is happening.

Conversations are now happening in real life every day now. Where as two years ago there was nothing. Strangely, they are not happening with people those asking questions consider friends who would consider them hateful.

Hence those with extremist trans activist views will not be included in these conversations. That recent YouGov survey showed what was happening there.

Why on earth would anyone say anything to someone they know would probably call them phobic and hateful. Maybe even effect Thor livelihoods …. Yet we are being told ‘working class women are not discussing this’ (no … they are not having these conversations around you) .

And look at the organisations pulling out of stonewall. Yeah, winning!!!!

There have been wins though - Harry Miller, the census. There are court cases still in the offing including appeals.

Keira’s case actually had effects in other countries who are now doing their own research into affirming only treatment. There is a growing swell of international clinicians saying that there are issues that need to be addressed. Even trans doctors themselves.

The overconfidence displayed here has been an outstanding effort. But like others have said. It is projection based on nothing but wishful thinking.

Yeah see the lesbian and gay movement for details. Oh

False equivalence. The lesbian and gay movement weren’t targeting children and their movement didn’t involve pushing them down paths of life long medication and painful surgeries on already healthy bodies. They didn’t demand any changes in language, they didn’t demand people lie and abuse and attack them when they wouldn’t. They didn’t demand that men compete in sporting events with women or be allowed into their single sex spaces. They wanted equality, which they didn’t have. They didn’t want to change society, they just wanted to play an equal part in the society which was already there. Trans people already have equality but what they want is to be prioritised to the detriment of women. So, not not the same thing at all and that’s why trans ideology cannot stick in the long term.

I doubt anyone here would want trans people to live in the shadows, and it's a matter of fact that trans people have as much protection under the law as any other UK citizens, and more than some because they benefit from hate crime legislation.

Your insinuation that women standing up for their own legal protections are by default anti-trans is tacit acknowledgement that the repeated attempts to establish gender identity in place of sex are in direct conflict with women's rights.

Why the fuck are you still here boring me to death?

Good line, I'm enjoying the carnage.

My guess is you could end your sentence there.

How presumptious. And wrong.

My guess is you could end your sentence there. As someone who is part of the LGBT community I can confirm it is very common, people have called themselves Queer for a long time. Queer As Folk was first broadcast in 1999, Queer Eye in 2003 - it was so normalised that even mainstream mass market TV shows used it in their titles. You have no idea how many people are both horrified and deeply angry about straight people now claiming the word represents some kind of paedophile plot - Queer people have been here before, we remember.

It’s just not “cool” anymore. These social contagions never do stick because the next generations take care of it simply by wanting to be as different as possible to their sad, embarrassing parents.

Yeah see the lesbian and gay movement for details. Oh ...

It never was cool, outside of a couple of lefty schools, just like being gay or lesbian was never cool in the 80s, or even now, my son says homophobic bullying was rife at his school. I'm sure some of the faddishness will die down but what will be left is a generation for whom trans people are completely normal, who have trans mates, and who have far bigger concerns like climate change of economic precarity.

In many ways trans acceptance is already way beyond LGB acceptance in the 80s and things are only going in one direction - almost every day there is another massive trans success story from countries granting increased rights to winning major awards. It would have been unthinkable a couple of decades ago, trans people will never be forced to live in the shadows again.

Oh, and regarding 'queer' - I've met very few gay or lesbian people who aren't horrified by its use. Too many of them had it screamed or shouted at them to be able to feel able to reclaim it. Some may feel empowered by it being reclaimed but that's far from universal.

Indeed LondonWolf. And when you are surrounded by young people you know that they're not a hive mind. They are very scared of social disapproval so are careful of what they say and where, but as those of us older know, irrational beliefs instilled via bullying and intimidation never last. They are resented, hated and dismissed - initially in secret with those you trust and eventually out loud in public.

And by 'one word, Alba' do you mean the Alba Party? I doubt very much that you are a Scottish woman, in that case.

Seriously, do you not realise how this looks to the younger generations, and that dismissing them as woke blue haired idiots is doing nothing but alienating the exact demographic the gender critical movement needed to win over to be successful.

I do actually, having teens myself and knowing plenty of them by extension. In my children’s college/school - both huge, big city education providers there is ONE “trans” person - a young girl who identifies as a boy. Her parents are watchfully waiting and have allowed no long term changes or medication. I am so very confident that this is not a long term issue because I see and hear teenagers, real ones, in real life, every day, not social media - the ones coming up behind the captured generation, and they are having none of it! It’s just not “cool” anymore. These social contagions never do stick because the next generations take care of it simply by wanting to be as different as possible to their sad, embarrassing parents. These youngsters are going to save us all from this nonsense

Again, you seem (like many TRA's) to not understand the women 'on the ground' so to speak. Not the people on here who are knowledgeable about what's going on, or the 'young feminists' (bit ageist really - are you presuming that the women on here aren't young? It's a common misconception by anti-woman posters who also tend to assume wrongly that everyone here is also middle class, white and straight). You've overlooked the 'ordinary' women. The ones who haven't been aware of the discussion. The ones who have been recently thinking 'but I don't understand what JKR said that was wrong' or 'why are the School introducing 'gender neutral' toilets?'. The ones who are coming onto this board in increasingly numbers and who are angry.

Gender ideology only targeted the young for indoctrination. That's why there was such a push for changes to School policies. Easy to handwave away the 'old women' and sell an idea of being 'inclusive' and 'special'. Again, this will be the downfall of the anti women movement. What once was cool becomes very passe quickly. I've heard parents talking already about their teens eyerolling over genders/pronouns/cancel culture.

In a few years, something else will be the next big thing and this period in time will be looked upon rather as a curiosity. It will be studied for causes along the same lines as the Salem Witch trials (was it ergot poisoning? Was it peer pressure? Who knows?).

Oh dear barley:
Yet here you are - on this little insignificant corner of the internet obsessively posting lengthy posts, full of inaccuracies, slander after slander and being repeatedly owned by so many knowledgable articulate women - a community of women standing up for all women.

Pretending that it's a tiny group of GC people when there's an explosion of ordinary citizens who have finally understood what's being done and are speaking out against the extreme trans ideology.

Your obsessive posts suggest you don't actually believe that the GC movement is failing - precisely the opposite. That's why you're here repeatedly - desperately flailing around trying to make some mud stick.
But it's not working as no matter how many times you repeat a lie, it never makes it true. We have all the receipts.

Trans rights is a vote winner amongst the young
Pressed "Post" on my last response and then saw this corker in your next line. The young are sooo well known for getting off of their arses and voting, aren't they!

By the way, in the Yougov research, even the young don't think that an intact male should be in a women's changing room.

Perhaps you should get out of your Twitter echo chamber and out into the real world. Men calling themselves women is a joke to most people.

But I don't think TRA's quite get how all this works underneath it all. It's a bit like Labour being taken aback by the actual votes at a recent election, having been lulled into a false impression by the chat on Twitter. Women are talking in real life. Carefully and quietly but still discussing and questioning.

One word, Alba. Yes there's lots of scaremongering, and some people are getting sucked in but a lot of what is being claimed simply isn't true which is why the arguments all fall apart when placed before real scrutiny such as the courts, political committees and academia. And anyone interested enough who looks into it soon discovers that. Despite all the bluster in what 6/7 years now the gender critical movement has not had one clear win and if anything has only bolstered the structural implementation of trans rights. Just look back at old threads on here, AEA vs EHRC was going to be a game changer, Keira had stopped trans healthcare for young people and prosecutions were sure to follow, the 2021 Olympics would be the tipping point as trans women swept up medals. All washed away like sand because the movement was never that strong. There's never been more than a couple of hundred people come out for it unlike the thousands who have come out for trans rights, no-ones really prepared to go to jail or face any real consequences like those involved in other causes are, mostly it's just a big whinge by usually quite privileged people who seem to have a lot of time on ther hands and just isn't relevant to the majority of people's lives.

And in that time the dominance of right wing men in the movement has shifted the argument, as I'm sure they intended. It's not longer Victoria Peckham talking about women's refuges but blustering Spectator columnists ranting about woke left wing mobs dominating universtities, terrorising right wing academics and tearing down statues. That's what the right wing press are interested in talking about now.

And finally when talking about how this works on the ground - seriously, what do think younger feminists make of Bindel accusing them all of being stupid and not worshipping her enough or creepy middle aged men like Glinner hectoring them about their sexuality? How would you have reacted to that at their age? How do think the majorty of LGB people, many of whom have called themselves Queer for decades, feel about a bunch of straight people accusing them of eing part of a paedophile plot. Seriously, do you not realise how this looks to the younger generations, and that dismissing them as woke blue haired idiots is doing nothing but alienating the exact demographic the gender critical movement needed to win over to be successful.

Not that much of a problem given Biden's resounding election win on the back of the most pro-trans rights platform ever pursued by a US presidential candidate.
@barleybadminton he was up against a lunatic. And still wasn't that far ahead in the popular vote. Said lunatic is now ahead of Biden in the polls.

I've got news for you, most didn't vote Tory in the past. So 2.5m people who didn't vote Tory still aren't going to vote Tory. That's not the sort of thing which causes landslides.

The overall image of a party and its leadership matter far more than individual policies. Boris' image is taking a hammering at the moment but they can easily wipe the slate clean with a new leader (and the Conservative backbenches are notoriously ruthless in that regard). It then doesn't take a half-competent spin doctor to get the tabloids going "Ha, look at Starmer, he can't even answer what he thinks a woman is." The effect is then similar to what happened when Diane Abbott got into a muddle with numbers, everyone treats Labour as a bit of a joke rather than a serious party capable of running the country.

After all, 95% of people know what a woman is, they think it's batshit that Labour (or Lib/GPEW/SNP) don't.

@Goatsaregreat

You've gotta love an advocate for male supremacism trying to paint women as the extremists.

IKR

but on the whole there is nothing like the same level of vitriol, and particularly the tendency to accuse everyone who disagrees of being a groomer, or opposing safeguarding, or worse that frequently happens during GC pile on

I just had to highlight this for the lurkers.

The claim that 'there is nothing like the same kind of vitriol' is a nonsense. Gender ideology has given those with sexist, misognistic and frankly women hating views a platform to express those views without condemnation. If anything, the appalling behaviour towards women has become socially acceptable under the guise of inclusion. Nicola Sturgeon produced a video, pleading with party members who had declared their intention to leave the party due to its 'transphobia' to stay, while saying absolutely nothing to condemn the party member who made credible rape threats towards Joanna Cherry. Many women, including myself, really became aware of what's going on due to the appalling (and continuing) abuse of JK Rowling. And of course, there's no 'GC' equivalent of this deeply unpleasant collection- www.terfisaslur.com

The delusion of those who say comments like this - 'but I'm not really seeing any evidence they are bringing people onto their side - quite the opposite in fact, they are completely alienating people left, right and centre and making scores of future adverseries in the process - not least amongst the police, a notoriously vindictive organisation' - is really quite gobsmacking.

No debate, deplatforming and the chilling effect has been enormously effective. Women haven't been able to talk openly because of the real risk of losing their employment due to being reported to their employers for 'wrongthink' or being harassed by the police on spurious charges. There's a comment on another thread that a woman should lose her job for sharing posts by feminist organisations on her private Facebook page and for spending her own money on crowdfunders.

But I don't think TRA's quite get how all this works underneath it all. It's a bit like Labour being taken aback by the actual votes at a recent election, having been lulled into a false impression by the chat on Twitter. Women are talking in real life. Carefully and quietly but still discussing and questioning. I've had two conversations in the last fortnight with women who have only recently become aware of all this. And they are horrified. Particularly at the violence and vitriol of those determined to erode women's rights.

It's the absolute denial by TRA's that anyone be allowed a differing opinion that will bring about the downfall of gender ideology. People are no longer willing to abide by no debate. People will not accept being told that they must accept something they know not to be true.