Why am I not surprised?

@NoNotMeNoSiree

I read all the posts. My comments said that I wasn't criticising for wearing make up. People should feel free to wear make up as and when they please if at all. If you re read my post maybe you might get why I'm saying I can wear make up or not wear makeup and not be judged (actually, that's a laugh, just typing that made me think how I'm sometimes referred to as tired looking ) If you're trans going by this posr you're going to get commented on your looks if you wear it or not.

So please, tell me what makes a transwoman being commented upon and judged any different from a natal woman? As far as I can tell, there is none. Transwomen have a big advantage having gone through male socialisation, have superior strength and are not oppressed as a sex class.

This is because being a woman isn't about looks; it's about having XX chromosomes, and female primary and secondary reproductive characteristics. Since men cannot acquire these, being a transwoman involves stereotypically "female" clothing and makeup.

Ah. Just found so19 pic.

Don't think it would appeal to anyone who feels important in police to indicate woman through makeup nails.

The pics they're all wearing gloves and various types of face covering.

What is interesting is the essential difference in the underlying social stuff.

Female officers can't decorate like that.
Why? Need to give impression serious, means business, don't try any shit with me fellas. I'm a police officer who happens to be female. I have authority and if you forget that police officer first then you're screwed.

How many female officers who out sharp end, would choose to have fancy nails and strong makeup?

I met an ex SO19 woman once.
I'm not sure that painted nails and makeup would go without MASSIVE (more interesting than her skills etc) media and public commentary about the nails (negative).

She quit because of constant daily sexist vile bullying.

And trust me she was nails. Just who you want doing that sort of thing.

Cherry should not be allowed to flout the dress code.
If that means that some people don't recognise that Cherry is a TW, because no outward trappings, then that's just the way it is.

WHen Cherry is not at work, then makeup can be worn and Cherry can display whatever stereotypical traits of womanhood that Cherry wants to, in order to appear more feminine.

Work is a different story. Dress according to the code, regardless of how that affects one's feelings.

Watching the news you see a dead woman being carried from a bombed area in Syria. For example.

Your point is that YOU can't tell she's a woman because no makeup?
That society can't tell because no makeup?

That saying makeup and nails are irrelevant means judging who is woman enough means that...??? Not sure.
Is it because she's obviously a woman, we're gatekeeping how women should look?

She's dead. She has no interest in anything any more.
I couldn't give one single fuck if knowing she's female upsets those who think all we are is a decorated skin

Women don't 'look like' women due to makeup and nails!

Come on...

Woman .. females... People with vaginas look like what we ARE.
Irrespective of makeup/nails.

When you watch the telly and see women around the world with a huge variety of different ways of dressing, with or without makeup, whether short or long hair, women with no hair due to chemo, women with burns due to warfare, women in rags and starving, I mean all of everything.

They ALL look like women. Sorry. These days. They all look like the sort of people with vaginas.

WHY not listen? Why not THINK?
Rather than saying. Effectively. You can tell whose a woman it's if makeup nail varnish.
Irrespective of the SEX of the person with them.

To disagree is to POLICE what women everywhere looks like. As need to JUDGE who is womanly enough.

Seriously.

This story is a key point. As you indicate in your comment.

• There are stacks of differences between male and female. From all the physical ones, to socialised behaviour which is subtle and deep seated.

• I really don't give a toss about who wears makeup. Grew up in 80s, when teen went to clubs men makeup so what.

• What do women in police do? Well because you know differences, plus misogyny in society, I think it would be hard to find one out at the sharp end who didn't adopt the look least likely to mean sexual, sexist etc comments, and most likely to enforce her presence as someone not to be fucked with. I mean. Obviously?

-So why to fit in, the makeup?
Not to fit in with other female officers. Esp given not allowed the nails etc even on the outside chance any may want to.

-Why then?
To try to signal, I'm not a man. I'm a woman. The nails and makeup are intended to inform others of gender ID, make them think ah could be trans. And ask for pronouns. Or use she because well. Makeup nails.

This is something that has been expressed explicitly more than once.

It's important that men and women adhere to very different ways of dressing etc.

Because that means adopting those things is a clear hint.

That system only functions properly if the big difference in things 'for' men/women is maintained.

And only if the majority population adheres to the division.

(Anyone remember the goth piece??!!).

'People should feel free to wear make up as and when they please if at all.'

What in any role? Have you thought that through?

What about actors esp women on screen?

Models on catwalk or on posters etc... ????

What if an actor playing king Arthur wants to have neon orange nails and makeup like toyah during filming?

What about acrylic nails (which eventually come off) for a surgeon, someone in computer research in dust free lab?

Sorry? What is unclear?

The police dress code is clear. It should be applied consistently. There should be no special cases made because of someone’s trans status.

If the code of conduct is not followed, the consequences should be proportionate and again consistent. (such as being asked to remove and reapply the make up and nails etc. and if a regular issue, then to mark down on appraisal)

Even for a publicity shot.

A police force allowing double standards of dress code is allowing what other double standards? At a time when distrust of male officers to treat any female with respect.

Sounds like out dated gender stereotypes to me.

Dress however you like.

Police officers and other professions including court staff, and health care professionals are required to adhere to dress codes whilst at work though and that applies to all people in these roles, male or female. Just because you're transgender doesn't mean you get special dispensation.

it

It's not really irrelevant, when I seems to come down to how you should or shouldn't dress.
To determine whether you're woman enough looking.
Fuck that

Are you a police officer?

If not whether you personally wear makeup or have long nails is irrelevant to this thread.

"I honestly don't get this.
As in, she's wearing make up and nail varnish.
So bloody what?!
It can't be put down to anything like '' valid concerns, taking over toilets!''
I sometimes think anyone who is trans can't win (that's a saying in the UK, it doesn't mean trying to win an end game or anything!)
Don't wear make up.
'' You look too much like a bloke!!''
'' At least makes an effort -
Stop appropriating womanhood! Who says you can wear makeup or nail varnish?!
At least make it consistent.
Or should it be that people shouldn't be trans at all?
Genuinely (honestly) curious"

I find your original post hard to read. What point are you making?

That trans women don't need to follow the same rules regarding appearance whilst on duty because their 'feelings' about their visage matter more their colleagues?

The rules around appropriate dress code and appearance are there for everyone to adhere to, hence a unisex style uniform available in various sizes, whether you're male or female.

Heavy makeup on duty looks unprofessional. Long nails are a potential H&S issue and impractical when you're trying to arrest and cuff someone.

Did you miss where I said I was not trans?
Just a woman, wearing make up or not wearing make up?
Still getting judged sometimes due to the fact I don't wear it?!
How if you're trans, whether you wear it or not it's just the same if not worse.
How should a woman look, anyway?!
That conversation can just go fuck itself right away.

That was to Oh Lordy

Omigawd yes I know, is my original point being ignored or pretending can't understand it though?!

I read all the posts.

Maybe you did. But you either choose to ignore the point or don't understand the point.

@NoNotMeNoSiree

I read all the posts. My comments said that I wasn't criticising for wearing make up. People should feel free to wear make up as and when they please if at all. If you re read my post maybe you might get why I'm saying I can wear make up or not wear makeup and not be judged (actually, that's a laugh, just typing that made me think how I'm sometimes referred to as tired looking ) If you're trans going by this posr you're going to get commented on your looks if you wear it or not.

Female police officers are not allowed to wear heavy makeup or wear nail polish whilst on duty. They can if they choose when off duty.

Cherry can wear heavy makeup and nail polish when off duty^^ the same as every other police officer. Cherry is there to perform duties as a police officer, not give style and beauty advice.

I read all the posts.
My comments said that I wasn't criticising for wearing make up.
People should feel free to wear make up as and when they please if at all.
If you re read my post maybe you might get why I'm saying I can wear make up or not wear makeup and not be judged (actually, that's a laugh, just typing that made me think how I'm sometimes referred to as tired looking )
If you're trans going by this posr you're going to get commented on your looks if you wear it or not.

If they want to fit in, why would they want to stand out by not follow the rules?

I thought most people knew that?

I do.
Correctly sex.
Refuse to see as trans. Stay in your lane.
Potato, potatah.

We don't know Cherry's chosen pronouns.