Great! DC1 school now joined the gender / sex nonsense

“We are in Germany so do not have different words for gender and sex, it's both "Geschlecht"”

I understand how here and America ‘gender’ came to be a very commonly used euphemism for ‘sec’ - so much so that most people probably use ‘gender’ when they mean sex and do not realise that ‘gender’ is now defined in law as meaning the social aspects associated with sex.

But does anyone know why we ever got ‘gender’ as a word in the first place as another word? Why aren’t we like Germany?
Gender seems so vague.

There are posters all over my DCs school saying there is no such thing as gender

Isn't that denying the existence of transgender people? If there's no such thing as gender, how can anyone be transgender?

Or are they denying that sex exists? Flat out denial of reality shouldn't be taught to children.

Your English is perfect by the way!

Huge sympathy. I’m in Scotland which has lost the plot oh this area. There are posters all over my DCs school saying there is no such thing as gender

I can’t protect my children from the messages but I have told them that what they learn at school in this area is a load of bollocks (which is a slang but apt word for nonsense)

Well on the plus side - was wondering if maybe the Lord Mayor, or at least her office, might possible to approach, but just a couple of news articles tell me where she stands - Rainbow Family means something TOTALLY different in German than in English. The German meaning of Rainbow Family is covered in schools here even younger than 10-12, just at that most basic level of “some people have a mummy & a daddy, some people have two mummies, some people have two daddies, some people live with/have only one parent, some people have two sets of parents because they were adopted…” (BTW, if you’ve not come across it, the term “rainbow baby” is sometimes used in English to mean one who is born after a miscarriage or stillbirth.) The English meaning is a group of “queer” friends, though you do see some local support services referencing the idea in their name, it’s not used in the media etc.

Oh for goodness sake what’s this now? I was trying to find something in English on Rainbow Family so everyone could point & laugh at my mistake (to be fair, I was, as documented, falling asleep at the time) & the very first thing tells me “oh no sorry, we’ve decided actually it’s all about The Queer”. This shoving groups together again doesn’t serve anyone well. Families with a parent who is trans (or where both parents are trans) will have a need for very different support from LG[same-sex]B families, particularly if it involves a parent coming out [& parents getting divorced]. The prejudice they face will also be different. They should have services that are tailored & devoted to them - & the same is true of L, G, & [same-sex]B families.

I just went & read the website & the Wir Project that Anyway has created instantly raises red flags.

• people with VSD are being dragged in to the workshop content: this is not justifiable in terms of the 2019 “3rd gender” legal changes; it’s just another example of piggybacking off the needs of a very small group to try to further a particular agenda
• in addition to hauling people with VSDs into things, one of the terms they think it’s vital to define is “Rainbow Family”
• it works on a peer education model, which can be excellent - but the model they describe is very much like evangelisation with the focus on workshop leaders’ personal stories, which prevents there being a truly honest & open environment
• they start from the assumption that people are prejudiced against “LGBTIQ*” people; tell workshop participants that not only do Wrong Thoughts hurt feelings, if you think the wrong things you are a bully & you are causing actual physical harm to come people - it is a remarkable child who would be be able to ask questions about any of this

It is sneaky, OP. Matters are further confused by the sex/gender Pick Your Own Translation/Meaning issue (I really hope they’re claiming there are 100s of genders btw, because while that is a nonsense, gender itself is a nonsense - moving into such a bold claim against science as there being 100s of sexes would be much worse).

Ok, I’ve now fallen asleep twice & had MN randomly delete another couple of attempts (or “stremotg”, according to my last sleep-typing effort just now [or “kist byfffffoonnnn”, should you prefer]) so I am going to just shut up & post (& then go to sleep).

I found some German teaching material using this gingerbread man - it might give a clue as to what your DC's school is using:

divedu.eduskills.plus/methods/gender%2F03

Interestingly it seems to give trans people a different sexuality to homo or hetero - 'pansexual'.

Thanks for bringing this up OP. I must say I had no idea this ideology had got so far that it was being taught to 10 year olds in Germany.

Or, do you have a parent class representative you could approach about this?

It sounds like other parents might not know about the content of these lessons.

Once they realise you can't actually explain 'gender identity' without resorting to the sort of stereotypes parents have been fighting since kindergarten (boys: tough, don't cry, like cars; girls: neat, play princesses, like dolls etc), you might have more people on your side.

I'm new to all this gender identity stuff, but I know my DC's teachers in NRW aren't allowed to give their own political opinions in lessons.

I'll warrant your DC's teacher doesn't have any factual evidence for the existence of gender identity, so she is actually just parroting whatever lobby group gave her that gingerbread man. I.e. she is voicing her own political opinion.

Can you pull her up on that?

I think this is NRW secondary curriculum (I guess this is right for age 10-12 in NRW): www.schulentwicklung.nrw.de/lehrplaene/lehrplannavigator-s-i/gymnasium-aufsteigend-ab-2019-20/index.html

I can't see any subjects that would include gender identity. Under Biology p 16-17 they cover Sexual Development, including physiological changes of puberty, pregnancy, and 'saying no in various situations'.

www.schulentwicklung.nrw.de/lehrplaene/lehrplan/197/g9_bi_klp_%203413_2019_06_23.pdf

You could ask how are these gingerbread lessons are being coordinated with the biology content?

Sorry NotEnglish - I’d understood it was a state-funded school, I was making a more general comment that one would expect the promotion of a particular ideology to be the preserve of private schools that are clear about the worldview their curricula stem from. The obvious ones are faith schools (though not all faith schools are religious enough, I’m thinking more of the ones that treat don’t teach evolution, or indeed teach nothing unconnected to the religion in question) but arguably Waldorf/Steiner schools fit in that category too.

I landed here, even though I obviously struggle with english, as you all can see.
Off topic, but OP, your English seems basically perfect to me.

Good luck with the... Geschlechtkuchenperson?

Obviously the legal stuff doesn’t apply, but there is nothing unreasonable in raising concerns about the use of resources that have been withdrawn from use elsewhere because they have no basis in science - & that are pushing an ideological agenda via the education system, which latter you’d think would set all sorts of alarm bells ringing (& pushing rigid ideas of gender roles together with labelling people & insisting they must have IDs according to this belief system…?!)*

Absolutely this, and as the OP is in Germany, well they have a history of propaganda in schools.

Perhaps this letter that was successfully used to challenge the use of the genderbread person resource in the UK will help? (Safe Schools Alliance, but thought it was worth including as it’s so targeted).

Obviously the legal stuff doesn’t apply, but there is nothing unreasonable in raising concerns about the use of resources that have been withdrawn from use elsewhere because they have no basis in science - & that are pushing an ideological agenda via the education system, which latter you’d think would set all sorts of alarm bells ringing (& pushing rigid ideas of gender roles together with labelling people & insisting they must have IDs according to this belief system…?!) It’s a perfectly legitimate comparison to draw, because it’s nothing about it being this movement being so privileged, it’s that NO group/cause/movement should hold such sway (unless you happen to have signed your child up for a private education with a very particular slant). Oh & absolutely no comparison can be made with the UK’s requirement state schools hold a daily act of collective worship that at a minimum be “mainly of a broadly Christian character”, in case anyone has a mind to try diverting the course of the thread by going off about that.

It’s been withdrawn from use by a[t least one] school in Australia too.

Good quality SRE is so so important & there is plenty the school could be focused on - I know the figures will be slightly different for Germany, but I doubt they’re so very different that children viewing porn isn’t an issue. If they already have mobiles or will be getting them when they move to whichever branch of secondary education they’re going to they need to know about online safety. It doesn’t matter there are 12yo “influencers”, you need to keep your accounts locked down, you don’t send nudes (or ask for them!), & you don’t accept friend requests from people you don’t know, even if they SAY they’re your age [& sex]. They could expand the teaching about periods beyond just teaching the menstrual cycle - breaking social & cultural taboos around menstruation isn’t just something that needs to happen where girls & women are made to sleep in goatsheds when they have their periods, after all.

Maybe they can do some gender nonsense when they’ve taught everything they actually need to about sex? What’s that, no time? Shame.

Very best of luck challenging this NotEnglish: it’s a brave thing to do; & not only is your DC1 lucky that you’re willing to speak up, their classmates are also.

(Oh & OP, please don’t worry about your English: from this side of things you’re absolutely fine; but I know that from your side it might be stressful &/or you might be second-guessing yourself lots, potentially leading to looking [lots of] things up [that you know perfectly well are correct] so writing posts takes you ages.)

Gender identity is all about how you, in your head, think about yourself. It’s about how you internally interpret the chemistry that composes you (e.g., hormone levels). As you know it, do you think you fit better into the societal role of “woman,” or “man,” or do neither ring particularly true for you? That is, are you somewhere in-between the two? Or do you consider your gender to fall outside of the spectrum completely? The answer is your gender identity.

So your 'gender identity' is all about how your personality fits with gender stereotypes. Do you think that girls should be taught to believe that they're not really girls because they don't like traditional female stereotypes and don't think they 'fit in' with them?

www.itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2011/11/breaking-through-the-binary-gender-explained-using-continuums/

Genderidentity - Who am I?

Well I reject the social construct of a gender identity. There is no such thing as a male or female brain so the picture is misleading.

Sorry if I’m missing something really obvious.
Why is educating children about gender and sex a bad thing?

No problem with sex ed but gender education is just woo. A girl who likes to wear trousers and play with mean is not a boy in the wrong body, but that is what the gender 'education' says.

It completely reinforces gender stereo types and holds them up as ideals.

They also teach that anyone can change sex, which they cannot.

Sorry if I’m missing something really obvious.
Why is educating children about gender and sex a bad thing?

To OP, regarding NRW - I wouldn't just look at the ministry, but also consider contacting the women's wing of NRW CDU who tend to be quite influential. Also, who is your local Landtag deputy?

OTOH.... the wider media aren't fully captured aside from their online and youth sections, and second generation feminists still have considerable institutional influence (in fact Emma magazine is already gearing up for battle on this). More importantly, things are definitely going to hit the fan when it comes to revising the constitution's equal protection clauses: it's no accident the coalition agreement so far only talks about inserting sexual orientation but not "gender identity". So a lot depends on how the timing plays out.

That image is called the 'Genderbread Person' and I think is British in origin, created by an organisation called Genderbread. It could be worth looking them up and also looking what Safe Schools Alliance and Transgender Trend have to say about their materials.

I had a search of the site that I used to be on (RUB, but I only ever was on the Aktuell section) and the discussion there feels a little like it did 4-5 years ago on Mumsnet. There are maybe three regular posters who clearly are following the debate in the anglosphere (and I bet at least one of them might be on MN, Austrian not German, she mentioned Kathleen Stock in one post) but the rest are falling over themselves to be nice, kind and oh so progressive. If I weren't so busy I'm almost tempted to wade back into the discussion there.
I would be really surprised if it won't go through, nobody will see it an important enough topic for which to risk the coalition. I remember the early days of the Greens, I remember when it was mostly Petra Kelly, Otto Schily and Joschka Fischer, I miss them.
Do you know any of the other parents well enough to raise the sex education issue?