Disagreement with husband about trans debate

Mothersisterlover

I think honestly we should close debate because I don't want to bring up past trauma for anyone else

I come on these threads knowing it will bring up my trauma. I suspect what you mean is "I think we should close debate because there is no sensible and logical answer to this question"

I am making the case of trans-women who I believe deserve the same privilege as AFB women to use the facilities associated with their identity
"AFAB" women are using the facilities associated with their biological sex. Nothing to do with identity. Also nothing is "assigned at birth" ffs.

I have been trying to explain to them which is that they are just as harmless to you as a woman attracted to women using the toilet or a random person in general. the vast majority of men are harmless too. Doesn't mean I want them in women's spaces.

I think honestly we should close debate because I don't want to bring up past trauma for anyone else and the topic is going nowhere in my opinion

I think that's what I said last time I got my arse handed to me on FWR.

Men are not just as harmless as lesbians. I don't know how you could possibly believe they are. Maybe you genuinely do though. That's fine. It's not supported by any statistical evidence whatsoever though so don't kid yourself that these are just two opposing opinions.

TLDR - Men are dangerous, women have the right to spaces where there are no men, it doesn't matter how those men 'identify'.

Mothersisterlover

When you say we should close debate to avoid bringing up trauma, do you mean that you still support transwomen in women's changing areas and rape crisis centres, but you don't want to talk about it?

Secondly, having female-only facilities is not a "privilege". It is an adjustment society has made, in order to mitigate the effects of male sexual violence on women.

Because this doesn't seem a good solution to me. That means male presences will still be traumatising women, but you will be telling traumatised women they are not allowed to speak about it in case the discussion traumatises them.

How is that in women's interest?

have been trying to explain to them which is that they are just as harmless to you as a woman attracted to women using the toilet or a random person in general.

Do you ever read the news?

Just caught up, mothersisterlover just a heads up, your username can be taken in a very unpleasant way. Just FYI, in case you want to change it. Might be an idea especially if posting about sex offences committed by male types against juvenile and adult bodies with vaginas.

Up to you obv!

I just want to mention that once a man bought a school in order to access victims to abuse.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4290737-Queen-Ethelburga-school-and-sex-abuse

I particularly like this:

"the person has gone out of their way to try to become a part of your community and the likelyhood of her putting that image out, working on it for years of her life, simply to trick you is, I assure you, not as great as you fear."

What image? How many years? Do we have to allow people into groups because they try hard? Can we stop transwomen going into, say, prisons if they haven't tried hard enough or for long enough?

Oh goodie, newbies

Lots of lovely information for lurkers to digest.

Starting with "wanting women and girls to have their own spaces away from men and boys is hating on women". And "Sure you are all going to get raped anyway".

No one assigned me or my DC anything at birth Who do I complain to?

do you think AFAB (assigned female at birth) women don't do these things to other AFAB women? the same for AMAB (assigned male at birth) men to other AMAB men?

Of course women don't commit sex crimes at the same rate as men! Are you very young? Honestly, you need to have a look at some statistics. It's really clear. Men are the ones doing the raping and women are the ones being raped. And if you let men into women's spaces you make it easier for the rapists. Is that feminist? No, it's not.

do you think AFAB (assigned female at birth) women don't do these things to other AFAB women?

Rarely, but occasionally. But why would we add men in to the mix and escalate that. Particularly as men are responsible for the majority of sexual violence towards women.

the same for AMAB (assigned male at birth) men to other AMAB men?

Yes. Men do this. Why would women want to share sex segregated space with them? Answer? They don't.

@ErynIsTrans so because men will come in anyway we should just open the doors and allow them? No thanks.

And if my sons come out as trans I'll support them whilst making it clear they aren't allowed in women's spaces. They don't know about my childhood, but if telling them makes them understand I will.

do you think AFAB (assigned female at birth) women don't do these things to other AFAB women?

1. men commit 98% of sexual assaults

2. transwomen are men

3. including transwomen in spaces where women are vulnerable greatly increases the risk of those women being assaulted in those spaces

I know your weird religion prevents you from admitting that you understand point 2, but literally everyone know it is true (including you)

And if your sons come out as trans, of course they should be let into the women's bathroom!

My son wouldn't dream of doing that. He respects women's rights and safety and understands why sex segregated space needs to be in place. It's not that hard to teach your child basic decency and respect. But if of course parents are telling their sons that they have the right to stomp all over women's safeguards, then they are teaching them to become toxic males too.

Not what I want for my child thanks.

[quote DeckardK]@ErynIsTrans

Unfortunately this won't stop sexual assault cases, because it doesn't matter if you put a sign on the bathroom door saying no trans women, men who identify as men can still go in. theres no lock, theres no security guard. Instead of blaming innocent trans women, maybe we should address why there is so much rape and sexual assault, not just in bathrooms, but in general. And we should start believing women when they talk about their experiences, and teaching children what is and what isn't ok, (not just boys, but girls too)

Do you think male crimes against women decreased or increased once sex segregated scales were introduced?

Do you think Trans women do not commit these same crimes against women? [/quote]
do you think AFAB (assigned female at birth) women don't do these things to other AFAB women? the same for AMAB (assigned male at birth) men to other AMAB men?

Not all men choose to have children, and it doesn't make them any less of a man! Same goes for women

so bleeding what? what is your actual point?

Adult human male will do nicely.

Adult human female for women. Excellent. I think we're really getting somewhere.

I'd reply to this response to me - Maybe you'll come to understand, maybe you won't :/ I hope you do because why wouldn't you, in my opinion of course - but I don't really understand what it means in the context of this debate Unless it means it's later on in the evening in your part of the world? That might explain it I suppose...

Oh look more deflecting off the actual point!

what is your actual point?

explain why it's OK for women to be locked up in prison with rapists? it happens a fair bit these days

The hatred towards women comes from those, like you, who wish to strip women of their rights to safety, privacy, comfort and dignity and hand them over to males. So males have all the choice and women have none. That is something, but feminist it ain't.