Disagreement with husband about trans debate

can i genuinely ask whats bad about AFAB/AMAB? /genq

it literally means assigned female at birth/assigned male at birth I dont understand what is so bad about it /gen

Nothing is assigned at birth. Sex is observed and noted.

I think a lot of people here would disagree with you on that, in that they just think anyone not afab doesn't deserve to be able to identify as a woman :/

What the actual fuck?

Can you not see that allowing some men, however they identify, into female spaces means they are no longer female spaces. According to your thinking anyone can go in. So all girls are in danger.

You just don't care

So, do you think women and girls being able to go to the toilet without being sexually assaulted is a privilege we don't deserve?

it literally means assigned female at birth/assigned male at birth I dont understand what is so bad about it /gen

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]Read this and tell me that women having female-only toilets is a "privilege". FFS.

extract

There was a fantastic restaurant called Smoke (lots of still mooing steaks) they had mixed toilets. Essentially enclosed cubicles but each labelled with icon of a male bodied person or a female bodied person. Each had a wee sink in the cubicle so it was only a shared corridor

With mirrors that was mixed. It didn’t stop, however groups of rowdy drunken men being leery or grabby or flashing themselves as they didn’t bother to walk into the cubicles before getting their cocks out

Y’see the problem with these mixed toilets wasn’t that trans women were using them, it was that drunk horny entitled Male hipsters were using them without consideration for other users, in particular families. They didn’t stick to the men’s cubicles either.

I digress. My then 9year old left her cubicle early while I was still sorting myself out. We entered an empty toilet and left to a stag do queuing up to take a slash. She was flashed at by a guy who couldn’t wait to get his cock out in the cubicle and

Propositioned by another. She’s 9 fucking years old and there’s a grown man trying to chat her up. I did get very angry when I came out to hear this go on but she was terrified so we had to try to leave quickly. I had five drunken men get aggressive with me for

Defending my 9 yr old from this guy’s drunken advances. I didn’t use inflammatory language or claim he was a paedo or pervert, as I needed to keep them as calm as possible to pass them by safely.

Safety was my prime concern. 5 or so drunken stags blocking my and my daughter’s exit in a tiny wee corridor in a mixed toilet. Only one voiced reason and tried to help us out but the guy who propositioned my now crying daughter pinched her arse as we left and laughed.

Staff justified their behaviour as boys will be boys and it’s just a stag do no harm done and police weren’t interested (how can we find a drunken man in a big city) -

My once confident to pee on her own 9 year old now needs taken to the toilet by a parent and she’s scared. You see the fear of gender neutral toilets isn’t fear or denial of someone who thinks they’re a woman, it’s entitled men who think they’ve a right to grope at 9 year olds.

And the organisations who justify that behaviour as men will be men/ boys will be boys; the police who say helpful stuff like just keep out of their way (i.e. don’t pee in restaurants where a group of men can block your exit) don’t help

twitter.com/nonmanfryingpan/status/1134770508384354304?t=BQ00NMvxPOCZlh28Kbow3Q&s=19[/quote]
I think a lot of people here would disagree with you on that, in that they just think anyone not afab doesn't deserve to be able to identify as a woman :/

PurgatoryOfPotholes That makes me so angry. And thats why women don't want to share with men. We don't want our daughters to share with men. It's not possible to tell which men are 'safe' and which are not. Just no.

Read this and tell me that women having female-only toilets is a "privilege". FFS.

extract

There was a fantastic restaurant called Smoke (lots of still mooing steaks) they had mixed toilets. Essentially enclosed cubicles but each labelled with icon of a male bodied person or a female bodied person. Each had a wee sink in the cubicle so it was only a shared corridor

With mirrors that was mixed. It didn’t stop, however groups of rowdy drunken men being leery or grabby or flashing themselves as they didn’t bother to walk into the cubicles before getting their cocks out

Y’see the problem with these mixed toilets wasn’t that trans women were using them, it was that drunk horny entitled Male hipsters were using them without consideration for other users, in particular families. They didn’t stick to the men’s cubicles either.

I digress. My then 9year old left her cubicle early while I was still sorting myself out. We entered an empty toilet and left to a stag do queuing up to take a slash. She was flashed at by a guy who couldn’t wait to get his cock out in the cubicle and

Propositioned by another. She’s 9 fucking years old and there’s a grown man trying to chat her up. I did get very angry when I came out to hear this go on but she was terrified so we had to try to leave quickly. I had five drunken men get aggressive with me for

Defending my 9 yr old from this guy’s drunken advances. I didn’t use inflammatory language or claim he was a paedo or pervert, as I needed to keep them as calm as possible to pass them by safely.

Safety was my prime concern. 5 or so drunken stags blocking my and my daughter’s exit in a tiny wee corridor in a mixed toilet. Only one voiced reason and tried to help us out but the guy who propositioned my now crying daughter pinched her arse as we left and laughed.

Staff justified their behaviour as boys will be boys and it’s just a stag do no harm done and police weren’t interested (how can we find a drunken man in a big city) -

My once confident to pee on her own 9 year old now needs taken to the toilet by a parent and she’s scared. You see the fear of gender neutral toilets isn’t fear or denial of someone who thinks they’re a woman, it’s entitled men who think they’ve a right to grope at 9 year olds.

And the organisations who justify that behaviour as men will be men/ boys will be boys; the police who say helpful stuff like just keep out of their way (i.e. don’t pee in restaurants where a group of men can block your exit) don’t help

twitter.com/nonmanfryingpan/status/1134770508384354304?t=BQ00NMvxPOCZlh28Kbow3Q&s=19

I think if someone is willing to work that hard to pass as a woman, they wouldn't be intent on rape or sexual assault

And that's based on?

One good point though is that we have finall got a definition:

A man is ... "a person who uses the traditionally ascribed masculine values of their region as the main basis for their personality and presentation"

A woman is... "a person who uses the traditionally ascribed feminine values of their region as the main basis for their personality and presentation"

So there you go. We are back to stereotypes: dress and long hair = woman.

I sort of have to admire Mothersisterlover for at least trying . Though I agree about the name especially after the Chris Chan stuff.

Bad things can happen, that's just true sadly.
I was legitimately just trying to avoid hurting anyone else, believe it or not
and No, no I don't want to talk about it with you ahhaha your statements are cruel and hypocritical

what about AMAB men committing acts of sexual assault on other AMAB men?

As a trans person myself, it takes a lot of energy to pass as the gender that I want to pass as. I think if someone is willing to work that hard to pass as a woman, they wouldn't be intent on rape or sexual assault.There are always exceptions, and I believe anyone who trusts me enough to confide in me. /gen This is however, a minority of people.

Still just marvelling over the rampant sexism that excluding female people is the just reward for a male who has tried hard enough. That they are owed that sacrifice of displacing females from anything at all.

I don't know how they think these conversations are going to go?

Male people permitting female people space of their own, resources of their own, was just a privilege that they're now calling time on?

Let's just take a moment to admire the male supremacism there

Female people have sex based needs of their own, issues of their own, protected characteristics of their own, and some cannot access mixed sex spaces or resources and are currently without. This is a major issue. The first job of female spaces is to be inclusive and accessible to females.

It really doesn't matter how hard a male person has worked to be part of a female community and how touching their journey is - the moment they enter that space they have forced females out of the female space for their own reasons, and now they have two spaces and facilities and resources while females are left with exclusion and nothing. In the female space. No one doing that is wanting to be 'part of' a female community, or has the faintest care or respect for the females in it.

Third spaces. They work. There are plenty of women who mention often that they would happily use mixed sex spaces. There are answers that work for everyone. Equally. Even the female subhuman ones.

Yes I think we need

• homophobic reference to lesbians and possibly

• racist reference to black women

on our Bingo card too?

And Bernard has pinpointed another bingo entry from another poster's post- 'why are you not scared of lesbians in your toilets??'

Yes to Bingo.

I'd add some kind of weird definition of man/woman - 'blah blah a woman is a cloud of formless infinite variety born from the ether of society's expectation' or some such shit. Definitely not 'tits, vagina, XX chromosomes, does the majority of the washing up and knows which kid has to be at the trampoline park at 2.30pm on saturday with a frigging Smiggle waterbottle'

Big long list in here.

ovarit.com/o/ThisNeverHappens/hot

How about the man in Limerick women's prison who was convicted of over 50 sex crimes and abusing his 4 year old step child. He "came out" as transgender around the time of the offences against the 4 year old and was in possession of a gender recognition certificate by the time "her" case came before the court.

That's the Irish Mirror. www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/male-born-transgender-sex-offender-20051834

How many news sources do we need to refer to?

I have been trying to explain to them which is that they are just as harmless to you as a woman attracted to women using the toilet

fuck me, your homophobia is astonishing. I think you're trying to imply that lesbians pose a threat to other women in the way men do

is that what you're trying to imply?

We had misogyny bingo on another thread and I think it might be time for TRA bingo on this thread. I'll list the ones I think we've seen so far on this thread -

• They just want to pee
• You're just going to get raped anyway - a sign on the door won't stop it.
• An unpleasant allusion to infertile people not really being men/women
• Genital inspections
• Educate yourself (or the new entry 'food for thought')
• AFAB
• Women rape too!
• False correlation between sex and gender
• And a late entry - we should close this debate now (please note that the person who actually brought up their traumatic experience doesn't agree with this suggestion).

Have i missed anything?

Maybe it's a genuine question and we should supply examples of 'news'?

Maybe you're right. I shouldn't be so suspicious. I'm sure it's a totally genuine question. I'll see what I can find

I remember reading this news for example -

"A transgender woman threatened to stab a 10-year-old girl’s mother during a terrifying sexual assault in the female toilets of a Morrison’s supermarket.

Katie Dolatowski, 18, admitted grabbing the youngster by her face and forcing her into the cubicle before demanding she take her trousers off at the store in Fife, Scotland, on 4 March.

She carried out a similar attack just weeks earlier, on 8 February, when another young girl using the toilet at an Asda store in Halbeath spotted Dolatowski using a mobile phone to spy on her over the partition wall."

Although it seems odd that I read it because apparently this could never happen?

What news do you read?

Interesting first post.

Hi 😉

Want to clarify what you mean by that?