Disagreement with husband about trans debate

Anyway let's get back to the point.

1. If all single sex spaces were always single gender, and internal gender id is not relevant when it comes to things where there's separation with two options.

1. If they have always been single gender, and that's an obvious fact (right?) then,

1. Given that here the GRC was introduced when trans-sexual was the usual term, and that was the group considered when GRC came about.

And that they correctly estimated about 5k grcs, which was an amazing estimate because that was the number issued.

And that was a v small group compared to population, and had been through GRC process including panel etc.

And that mostly we turned a blind eye the (rare) times a male was in toilets... Not sure about mixed sex changing etc not sure trans-sexual women used them much tbh. Loads have different approach to female spaces etc.

And that this anyone can have any gender id, it must be respected, and how they look behave etc is irrelevant, cannot be used as any indication of their gender.

And that this position demanded by certain transgender orgs etc has totally fucked over GRC transsexual people esp transwomen.

* Why is there no discussion in the main transgender orgs etc. About this impact on this group of trans people? Why instead were/are they often referred to as truscum if they say hold on this is not good..?

I read /not passive aggressive as entirely smirky and pointed.

Which popular chat sites use this shorthand? Interested.

I assume you're UK so it's not a clash between eg UK sarcasm max and somewhere that doesn't do sarcasm so much.

Interesting.

You are not going to stop using them even though plenty posters said this is not the culture on this board.

Incidentally I'm not plugged into the net 247 but I don't remember seeing this shorthand on twitter, BBC news comments, Facebook, and obviously Twitter.

Also asked DH, I don't have time to game any more so not done for 15 years or so.
He plays a host of mmporpg and he didn't know what it meant and doesn't remember seeing it in any chats, guild talk etc etc.

So the idea it's standard well known etc is...???!

There are also loads of threads on here about being neurodiverse, and also posters who state they are autistic, have Asperger's etc comment on a wide variety of threads frequently.

I've not noticed the shorthand you use.

I've never seen a poster say that everyone needs to do this.

* Why do you insist that you are doing the right thing, refuse to adhere to the long standing norms of these boards. Imply that anyone who doesn't think oh shit I'm being a fucker to neurodiverse posters is exhibiting a lack of interest or concern for other posters comfort...

You know best, you are right, everyone else (however many) are wrong and don't care about others. You alone will ignore the culture and norms of the site, which has a huge number of mainly female users.

You can't see any issues with your approach at all???!!!???

I won't stop using tone indicators. I am now, however, using the lengthened version so that it is more accessible to the average mumsnet enjoyer to prevent any googling. /serious

This doesn't affect you if you don't need them. They could also be "for the lurkers" as you say. If you don't like them, ignore them and move on. I'm sure I will learn the community norms of this website in time, but that doesn't mean I will stop making my messages accessible. /serious

Eryn YABU = You are being unreasonable.

Just in case anyone posts YABU to you.

Eryn when posting on a well estate chat board it's usual to follow community norms rather than using shorthand from another board, and then deciding to educate those who use established shorthand.

Eg here things like

GF
Headtilt

Brian from Hull
Are ones you may need to learn for posting here.

You know what chinny reckon means I assume? That's just a UK thing.

Oh for the love of small furry animals.

Stop trying to virtue-signal about how considerate you are of people with disabilities by adding unknown initialisms. If you think your posts are unclear, either rephrase them, or if you wish, append disclaimers that won't require habitual mumsnetters to google the style-guide of a completely different forum.

Toilets and the safety of adult and juvenile vagina people in refugee camps is huge issue globally and the situation for bodies with vulvas, especially if they are menstruators, is heart breaking.

Worth looking into for those who think the risks for those with vaginas are inevitable, and why bother getting worked up, you're going to get attacked whatever.

(Incidentally vagina is from a word meaning 'sheath', saying that's one good way to describe the female half of the world's population is just yet another fuck you.
And even worse, I suspect that those who use bodies/ people with vaginas are ignorant of the meaning.
Which is- bodies/ people with specific orifice for males to insert penis into (ie to fuck)...

'These shocking quotes are from people we have been speaking to on the issue of safety around toilets in camps.

‘He set her on fire and burned her to death for using the toilet at night’

‘She was raped in the dark, on the way to the toilet, so did not even see who did it’'

views-voices.oxfam.org.uk/2017/11/unused-toilets/

/lh means lighthearted
/npa means not passive aggressive
/srs means serious

I still don't understand why trans cannot celebrate in third spaces together
/not sure if light hearted / is seeking information/ other tone can be inserted / how annoying is this extra ///

But if those terms aren't used here and people don't know them, even those who would find them helpful won't know what you're talking about. It's the same with many acronyms on here - people often ask 'what does DH mean?' or 'what does TAAT mean?' and those are terms which are used commonly on the site.

You've listed these with no explanation - /gen /lh /npa /srs. I picked up /gen from context but can't even guess at the rest. If you use language which isn't in common use on a site and just expect people on that site to somehow know what those terms mean, you're not being inclusive. Exclusive if anything.

I don't really like twitter for that exact reason. People can often believe that they hold the only opinions in the world there, which is unhealthy in my opinion. /light hearted

Lurker- person lurking. As in the silent audience reading along without actively participating in discussion

The 'tone' words make my skin crawl.

I will still use tone indicators, but if you don't understand what I mean by them, I am willing to type out my words in full /genuine /light hearted /not passive aggressive

@ErynIsTrans thanks for permitting the majority to use the language we already use. The real bubble can be seen in distinct groups on Twitter.

The other MASSIVE OBVIOUS REVEALING PROBLEM with the single sex spaces always single gender so why the fuss types.

Is the incredible way that these arguments always focus on 'Western' countries.

I find it just so blatent, and illustrative of attitudes to our sex, that the global situation is just not... Even worth a thought.

Eg.
Female only bogs, seeing as that's invariably the situation discussed.

Activism for female only spaces especially toilets by global huge orgs...

UNESCO
'Single-sex toilets needed to overcome girls' barriers to education,' says Unesco'

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/single-sex-toilets-unesco-un-international-womens-day-period-a8244776.html

United Nations
'With one out of three women worldwide lacking access to safe toilets, it is a moral imperative to end open defecation to ensure women and girls are not at risk of assault and rape simply because they lack a sanitation facility, United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon urged today on World Toilet Day.'

news.un.org/en/story/2014/11/484042-ensuring-womens-access-safe-toilets-moral-imperative-says-ban-marking-world-day

And on it goes that's just a couple first links came up Google.

Because it is about inclusion. And you can still use terms like "woman" and "man", "male" and "female". It isn't taking away any terms, rather it is adding new ones or alternatives. You can still use all the same terms if you are unwilling to change. Our language is evolving just like it always has. (for example, we don't use thee anymore when meaning you)

You will find many people agree with me here, and from what I understand, this site is somewhat of a bubble and it can be difficult to see just how many people agree that these changes are for good causes.

Okay, so you're saying you're going to come into a space that you don't usually use, and ignore the social norms of the place. Then when told you aren't following our conventions (if we think there is a chance of misunderstandings, we type out our words in full), you just announce your intention to carry on doing what you like here!

Well, doesn't your post just encapsulate this debate and why we don't want men in our hospital wards or other places we feel vulnerable.

Thanks for illustrating it all so clearly to the lurkers.

Apologies I think I asked that in a parallel thread.

@ErynIsTrans I posted earlier but would like to know why the trans perspective should trump the majority perspective, why women must lose regular language because of Stonewall interventions?

*Hardly making yourself clear or being polite, was it?

Are you usually so inattentive to your surroundings?*

As you said, this isn't the site i normally post on, so I thought it would be polite to account for all types of people that may post here. Even if it is not helpful to most other people, it is helpful to some so I'm not going to change my language to be less inclusive. If you don't need/use tone indicators, thats also fine, but it wont affect you if i use them for anyone who may need them /gen /lh /npa /srs