Disagreement with husband about trans debate

I agree with /passive aggressive because that requires you to know that you are writing in a way that can be construed as passive aggressive. To be more inclusive, wouldn’t it be better to simply rewrite your work to be clearer and not able to be mistaken.

Surely if you are writing something that the tone can be misinterpreted, perhaps you need to rework your sentences.

My eyes find it hard enough to focus and read these days. I found reading a paragraph with tone indicators harder to read. So not very inclusive really to others outside the small group who require it. Perhaps that is why it has not been adopted by captioning etc.

The result was that I found myself having to really focus on that paragraph and gave up half way through.

CiaoForDiNiaoSaur I managed to go from losing to winning a match once, after doing just that, on a double letter score.

Some might think I didn't deserve to win, and to those people, I say nur nee nah! Gracefully.

Or should that be /gracefully?

I can see how jokey fake formatting tags like [/sarcasm] would become /s, and spawn a host of further injoke tags.

But nevertheless, I don't want to join in on it. Any more than I want to pretend I'm back in 2001, using txtspk on my Nokia 3310 to make £5 phone credit last two weeks!

To be fair, if someone types /gen I'm going to assume they aren't being genuine, if someone types /serious I'm going to assume they definitely are not serious and if someone types /not passive aggressive that's exactly what they are being, passive aggressive.

It's like when they say him/they you know it's not a man.

I actually have the type of "neurodiversity" I suspect this is intended for, and I certainly didn't find it helpful. Goodness knows what people with other conditions make of it, like the people with dyslexia

It's a young thing I think, it's certainly not common in my crowd. Like when we thought it was cool to use text speak when brimming with arrogance and the gift of eternal knowledge.

It's cute really.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes DS2 once won a game of scrabble by placing the letter 'Q' in such a place that he made the word 'qi' twice! We were pretty much neck and neck until then.

That Yougov survey is here.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/12/22/cancel-culture-what-views-are-britons-afraid-expre

Because it is about inclusion. And you can still use terms like "woman" and "man", "male" and "female". It isn't taking away any terms, rather it is adding new ones or alternatives. You can still use all the same terms if you are unwilling to change. Our language is evolving just like it always has. (for example, we don't use thee anymore when meaning you)

No. It is taking away meaning to terms ‘woman’ and ‘man’ so that they mean something else. Thereby attempting to change those words irrevocably. There is no ‘adding’ of terms, maybe you meant ‘adding’ meanings.

And adding of meanings changes results in me saying the word women (adult human female) and someone interpreting as ‘anyone who wants to claim this word’. This means communication has failed when sex actually matters.

Therefore, this is not ‘inclusive’ at all.

If you meaning they added ‘terms’ it would mean new words, not prising open the meanings of commonly used words for centuries to add meanings (particularly when it now includes the very opposite as well. Ie not just women, but men, in the word ‘woman’)

So no we can’t still use terms like "woman" and "man", "male" and "female". and we can’t still use all the same terms if you are unwilling to change.

And it is very dishonest to say we can.

You will find many people agree with me here, and from what I understand, this site is somewhat of a bubble

So you have come to a forum board with the preconceived notion that this is a bubble. I am sure you can see that you have your own prejudice coming through. You then remind us of what the extreme trans rights activists like to say in attempt to discredit posters and to silence people discussing the negative interactions of one groups rights claims on those create to progress females to overcome millennia of sexist discrimination due to our sexed bodies.

There is no bubble here. There are a large range of views expressed. If people remain civil (not falling into snide remarks, slurs etc - not aimed at you by the way) then interesting discussions are to be had.

Unfortunately, many people who hold the extreme trans right activist views tend to not be able to put aside their prejudices for long enough to have those interesting conversations.

and it can be difficult to see just how many people agree that these changes are for good causes.

Absolutely it is difficult. Did you see the most recent ‘Yougov’ survey results just before Christmas? Women, in particular, aren’t even telling their friends their views !

If you honestly believe that the majority believe it is ok to change the language, maybe you are in a bubble of your own and need to get out. I suspect you will find the ‘majority’ agree with things to be polite without agreeing at all. And why would they tell the truth when it is constantly framed as ‘hurting people’ and causing suicides to not do so. And if you don’t see the coercive nature in that maneuver then I am surprised.

@CiaoForDiNiaoSaur

I'm Neuro diverse and all this /gen is confusing. Because that's not what/ has meant my entire life.

So now I've been told I shouldn't talk about my trauma (even though talking about it helps) and that "/gen" etc is helpful to me, even though its not. In other words "woman. Put up and shut up". Right got it.

If I wanted to spend an evening learning an entirely new code like "/lh" = lighthearted for internet points, I could simply spend it learning Klingon on duolingo.

Or, learning all the 2-letter words allowed in Scrabble. Actually, that is an idea.

I'm Neuro diverse and all this /gen is confusing. Because that's not what/ has meant my entire life.

So now I've been told I shouldn't talk about my trauma (even though talking about it helps) and that "/gen" etc is helpful to me, even though its not. In other words "woman. Put up and shut up". Right got it.

By the way, did anyone miss the

this site is somewhat of a bubble
these changes are for good causes
Our language is evolving

For those adding to the list.

I think with not liking communal, may have a variety of reasons for the people who cite that and similar.

I'd love to know reasons why some posters comment with points like those I don't understand.

Things like-

Cubicles etc are available in their experience,

No one likes communal, should be cubicles always,

Let's ignore that masses of situations where communal and that is NOT going to change in loads situations for a host of reasons, and focus on communal not liked get rid (just as easy as that)

....

I have huge difficulty with anyone woman or man genuinely not being able to see any risks with allowing males to access spaces where girls/teens/women are changing for anything involving exposing the body parts that men are particularly fixated with. However carefully they change.

I genuinely don't understand that.

If a said oh swimming club DDS new instructor male trans ID so naturally changing with the girls isn't that wonderful!

To anyone I know. 99.999999% of them would say wtf my god that's awful what are you going to do have you spoken to the club that can't be actually allowed etc etc.

Does anyone actually think pretty much everyone would say nice one! Inclusive sports vital!

If not, I do not see what point you are making when you say you disliked using communal changing rooms in the past.

This does concern swimming.

Text for people using screenreaders.

Upper Caption:

Chicago School District 211 Grants Transgender Students "Unrestricted Access" to Locker Rooms

Lower Caption:
After the School Board voted 5-2 to allow male students who identify as female into girls' locker rooms, two students reacted

Two passport-style photos of students. The left image shows a smiling teenager with pink hair and glasses. This is labelled with the quote
"I'm ecstatic"

and attributed to a [named] Transgender Student at the school.

The right image shows a sad-looking teenage girl with brown hair. This is labelled with

"I feel uncomfortable my privacy's being invaded. As a swimmer, I change multiple times, naked, in front of the other students in the locker room."

It is attributed to another [named] student at the school.

Now you know that, what do you think?

I think it's just asking for trouble and the fact that swim England and British gymnastics policies say changing for gender is fucking outrageous.

NoSiree

You seem to have missed the posts just now where I pointed out loads of times that loads of clubs, meets etc are held at facilities with two communal changing areas. Eg schools.

Tbf I didn't realise this until kids had swimming lessons.

But it's vv common, loads of people go, and obv communal changing is what's there and for various reasons schools aren't all going to build cubicles.

had to shower at the gym today. It's a terrible set up and I couldn't hide myself
That does sound like a terrible set up to be fair.
Only ever been in one changing room in a clothes shop years ago that was communal, hated it and that is as a biological woman.
Just shows that whether you're trans or not trans, keep with the bloody cubicles!
Nobody wants to be all changing out in the open.
(I don't, anyway.)

British gymnastics same. By gender.

Again often places with communal single sex.
Girls age about 5+, gym clubs v popular.

Swim England have gone with their initial approach, just checked.

Policy they say written with or by (not clear) stonewall.

Trans people change etc according to gender. Can have individual changing if wanted by the trans person.

Swim clubs meets etc as I mentioned, are often held in schools. Communal changing single sex (now gender).

Text for those using screenreaders

Person 1: "I had to shower at the gym today. It's a terrible set up and I couldn't hide myself. A woman complained that there was a guy in the ladies locker room!! #transproblems #transtwitter"

Person 2: "That's my fear when I start looking more fem. I'm fortunate to live 5 mins from the gym though"

Person 3: "Literally showering with my cock exposed."

Oh and swim England and gym clubs org whatever called. Introduced gender go where you like.

Then it was pointed out that loads of clubs competitions meets etc are in facilities with communal changing, and that obv for swimming and also (I was v wtf) gymnastics apparently no knickers under leotard is a common rule.

And swimming pulled the info and put under review up about I dunno. 6 years ago? Last I checked still nothing new. Will check.

Dunno about gyms.

My DDs swim lessons were at a school. Male female communal changing and showers.
Male people there aged about 5 to 85.

I personally think (know) that there are plenty of blokes (and some older boys) who would be interested in entering a place where girls 5-18 and women 18+ changing involving breasts bums vulva out, even if it is uncovered as little as poss.

Do any women and plenty girls esp older not know this?

Yes.

Has happened in gym communal changing, women's sports clubs, that is what I'm aware of anyway.

Of course most women will quickly leave, or put up with it, or change in eg bogs, few will say anything complain etc. That's what loads of women and girls do.

I don't want men changing in with me when I go swimming.
Does this actually ever happen?
I'm in the UK, we have separate men and women's changing rooms when we go swimming.
You sometimes at the bigger places get changing villages which is for everyone to get changed, but where you're still all cubicled off.
I always think that makes sense from a family point of view, makes it easier for parents to change with their child whether they're male or female.