Disagreement with husband about trans debate

Obviously we can't try that, but Debbie Hayton seems to manage it ok.

Yep.

I suspect many women are perfectly happy with post-op transexuals accessing female spaces. The controversy is around self ID and the fact many people don't realise surgery is not a prerequisite to formally change gender

No. Many women are not happy to share sex segregated spaces with any males, no matter how they identify. They may have done so in the past when there was a teeny tiny number. But it's not a tiny number any more, and the majority do not have any surgery. Not that I would want people to put themselves through surgery that they don't want. But the system is too open to abuse now. Women's spaces need to be sex segregated, not gender segregated. Safeguarding does not work in a gender segregated world.

Try working as a teacher as a trans woman and see how long it is before the good denizens of this site petition for their kids to be removed from your care

Obviously we can't try that, but Debbie Hayton seems to manage it ok.

OP, it's hard for males to understand this because they haven't ever experienced being female. And are physically incapable of experiencing it! So your DH agrees with you on most of the practical points, but can't quite grasp how it is for a woman faced with these issues.

I think he'll get there. I'd suggest not getting into arguments. My DP was similar to yours for a while. Eventually he read something in the newspaper and it all clicked into place.

Yes, because most tyre fitters have £20k+ sitting round to pursue an ET claim, haven't they? Would you say this to a black or gay person?

Yes, obviously I would. If they can prove they've been discriminated against they have every right to sue.

Marginalised groups are sick and tired of being told they have 'chips on their shoulders'. It's one of the classic tropes of the prejudiced.

Yes, cause no one is more marginalised than.. *checks notes.. the group that's had people sacked and cancelled, had laws changed to accommodate them, forced changes in the policies of refuges and shelters to the point they've pushed out the very people those refuges and shelters were designed for...

dancing you are awfully invested in proving marginalisation with nothing to back it up.

You know that transgender is a protected characteristic in hate crime criteria right

So you can call me a fucking slag/bitch/ as I have been called so many times, as much as you like and it's fine because sex isn't on the leat so any sex based insult you wanna throw at me you are all good.

We can do anything to a transgender person though. ( not that I want to because I don't go round doing this stuff)

But whis protected here and who isn't?

I'll give u a clue ...its the same old same old...women fucked over r

Thankfully Dh has always been extremely cynical about other mens motives and always expects the worst from them and is genuinely friends with women so is firmly on board on this.

I would want the conversation to be about women, and the ways in which we are disadvantaged and marginalised because of our sex. I would want my husband to care a lot more about me than a political theory that advantages other men.

Yes, because most tyre fitters have £20k+ sitting round to pursue an ET claim, haven't they? Would you say this to a black or gay person?

^Try working as a teacher as a trans woman and see how long it is before the good denizens of this site petition for their kids to be removed from your care
Has the teacher got a huge chip on their shoulder? That might explain why people wouldn't want their kids taught a bias.^

Marginalised groups are sick and tired of being told they have 'chips on their shoulders'. It's one of the classic tropes of the prejudiced.

People who have managed to achieve what they have achieved ie politics, medicine , education etc major organisations are not as marginalised as you think.

I cant even get a response from my mp let alone an entire policy re worded

Women haven't even achieved the right to their own bodies in some counties.

Yet on.an extremely short amount of time we have this issue.

That's not the result if a marginalised group.

My husband and I disagree on this. He says he understands but he’s very much ‘why can’t you just be kind.’, informing his opinion from the Guardian etc. Although, it gave me great satisfaction that a female relative (who he looks up to and was absolutely convinced that she would go along with the TRA narrative) turned out to be in total agreement with me. His relative and I are quite different personality wise. Hopefully this will lead him to have a ‘hang on a sec if those two agree’ moment.

Your husband will listen when a high status man tells him to.

I suspect many women are perfectly happy with post-op transexuals accessing female spaces. The controversy is around self ID and the fact many people don't realise surgery is not a prerequisite to formally change gender.

I'm not.

Did anyone ever ask women whether they were perfectly happy about this?

I am not ticking that box.

And if you are perfectly happy then that's good for you. But you do not get to obliterate other women's opinions because you are perfectly happy that men without penises are some sort of woman. They aren't.

Try going for a job at your local Kwik Fit as a trans woman and see where that gets you
If they refused to employ a trans person based purely on the fact that person is trans, the trans person should sue.

Try going in the pub at the bottom of my road on a Friday night as a trans woman and see how long it is before someone knocks your lights out
Try going to the pub down the road from me as a single woman or a man that's never been in there before. Trans aren't the only ones that experience violence...

Try working as a teacher as a trans woman and see how long it is before the good denizens of this site petition for their kids to be removed from your care
Has the teacher got a huge chip on their shoulder? That might explain why people wouldn't want their kids taught a bias.

But at least one person is fine with that, as long as the violence is male-on-male

I don’t know who the one person is…though if its the person I think it is they literally said that no one should be beaten up

I was challenging your assertion in your 10.37 post that trans people do not suffer prejudice or marginalisation. Of course they do.

You can hold GC views without peddling this obvious falsehood. It's crass and offensive, and it's a premise you don't need.

@Oblomov22 if you look up that case elsewhere, it is unclear in that it is not declared whether the discrimination is the denial of the use of women's toilets or the landlord barring them.

The Equality Act 2010 does cover gender reassignment as a protected characteristic but also acknowledges the need for and allows single SEX (not single gender) spaces in certain circumstances - one being toilet facilities. An appropriate response is providing an alternative facility e.g. a unisex toilet. Refusing to allow biologically male people, even if they present/identify as a woman, is a "proportionate means to a legitimate aim" because it protects the rights of women to have a single sex space.

Why are you trying to make up arguments so you can shoot people down in arguments you just invented. What does that achieve?

Women are not males without a penis.
Wonen are allowed to say no to males.

Males should be nicer to other males.

Its not womens problem.

Agree with PPs there is too much focus on the penis. If I find myself in an enclosed space/dark alley with a strange man, I'm not thinking about his cock. I'm thinking about how easily he could overpower me. I'm not thinking about what might happen after that - the sheer fear of being overpowered is enough. The fact that a man can do what he wants with me, sexual or not.

Agree also the DH's position is easy to take when you're thinking of Hayley from Corrie. It becomes rather less tenable when you're faced with the reality of a muscular 6ft person with big hands.

If anyone gets beaten up, it's always the fault of the person who did the beating.

But at least one person is fine with that, as long as the violence is male-on-male.

And why would we object to a trans teacher? So long as, like any other, they're being professional in the classroom, why would we?

You may be fine with it. But you and I know perfectly well that others on this site would be deeply, deeply uncomfortable.