Disagreement with husband about trans debate

@SapphosRock

What exactly do you both mean by womens spaces though? Because if you really object to a fully transitioned trans woman with a GRC using a ladies public toilet then I do think that is rather extreme

But the women in that toilet cannot know if a trans woman entering the space has had GRC or not. So the feelings of the women, including for some fear or for others a need to exit due to for example their religion saying they cannot share a space with a man, are unaffected by whether or not the trans woman has had surgery. Because there's no way of identifying who has had it or not.

Just as there's no way of identifying which males pose a threat and which don't. Nobody thinks all men are rapists or sexual predators, but single sex spaces exist to mitigate the risk from those who are.

So why should that different for trans women?

Could i ask your wise husband please, next time i am in a bathroom and a 6 foot transwoman comes in, how do i politely ask if they have had gender reassignment surgery. Tia

My DH says "mmmn" & "yes" in the right places but I can see his eyes glaze over because he's just not as invested as me. I make regular gardening forays, and post & sign things all via our shared email account. He's getting the message in dribs & drabs.

It may not be so much that he thinks the penis is what makes a man, as he thinks it that going to far as removing it tends to eliminate people who are just looking to take advantage

Except men aren't just walking penises. There's a brain that controls their thoughts and their actions and a person doesn't change those thoughts and desires by removing organs.

Its completely irrelevant because we'd never know until it was too late anyway

When did women's rights become his to give away? Ask him that.

It may not be so much that he thinks the penis is what makes a man, as he thinks it that going to far as removing it tends to eliminate people who are just looking to take advantage.

Due to the ideological capture of many institutions, many organisations are simply ignoring the single sex exemptions they can (and should use). IamSarah has written about her experience with a rape crisis service which now offers 3 choices of support groups to transwomen but none at all for those women who need single sex groups. Edinburgh Rape Crisis actually used the Occupational exemption in a job description and then completely ignored it, putting into post someone who was ineligible due to their sex. This and the 'impossible to police' comments worry me. If there is a space, or service which someone knows they are ineligible ineligible use due to their sex but does it anyway, what does that say of their consideration of the needs of the people who are eligible to use that space or how much they will acknowledge and respect other people's boundaries and needs.

That's why, in particular, self id is so problematic. A man (however he identifies) knows that they shouldn't be in a single sex space but now women are stripped of the right to object.

Ask your husband this question; Why do women have awards/places in the boardroom that are designated for women? I assume his answer is because women have been oppressed and we need to level the playing field. Then ask if a trans woman who has had surgery deserves a place on those lists, when the trans woman has had all of the advantages of being male?

Just commenting on this old one, trotted out upthread:
"But still impossible to police effectively."

Um, no. Human society has worked just fine for thousands of years, with female-only spaces.

It's only in the last few years that 'entitled' males have started forcing their way into female spaces. We kept them out until then just fine. We don't need the police on the door. We just need the woke wokies to shut the fuck up and let us get on with life.

If a male goes into a female changing room, all we females create merry hell until they leave. It's not complicated. No need for genital inspections. We know who men are.

Are now saying that men must be allowed to watch women and girls undress otherwise they might be beaten up?

Come on girls, get yer kecks off to show the men we don't want them to suffer.

Mind-blowing.

Indeed Scully.

Are trans people marginalised? I am sure there will be cases. Are they vulnerable? Many are due to a whole slew of reasons, only some of which is due to their identity

Some of it is even caused by the people meant to be advocating for them. It took 5000 people quietly living their lives and increased it to anyone who doesn't follow stereotypes 100 percent including of only part time. As if we wouldn't notice.

Advocated for the placing of people in said vulnerable situations. As if a teenage transboy is going to he safe in the mens locker room.

Advocating for switching markers on medical files.

With friends like that who needs enemies right.

As always angry at the wrong people. Why are people angry at women saying no to a male eveb if its just a part time cross dresser which has now been included under the unbrella rather than the people to created the problem.in the first place by making out they had all these rights that they didn't.

My DP has trans friends. Nice people. Probably as safe as any other.

I asked him that if it's not an issue of safety, why didn't he get one of his friends to take his 6 year old daughter to get showered and changed after swimming rather than me doing it.

The most marginalised and vulnerable is trope.

Are trans people marginalised? I am sure there will be cases. Are they vulnerable? Many are due to a whole slew of reasons, only some of which is due to their identity.

Are they more marginalised or vulnerable than many females in very precarious domestic situations? Or other groups? I don’t believe they are. And I find this use of ‘most’ offensive.

It is politically expedient over-exaggeration.

I'm lucky that mine is like yours and MrTSwift he's seen the worst of male behaviour and knows exactly what some men are capable of and he has no patience for it.

He thinks women are being way too soft and being manipulated into losing their rights by some of the worst kind of men.

My husband has what some would call a very jaundiced view of men but as he says in response I know what men are like and I know the lengths they will go to. He also absolutely furious about the inclusion of TW in female sports, he watches a lot of female sport and enjoys it, he will not watch it if TW are included as it is unsafe and grossly unfair.

So if a trans woman gets beaten up by a man, it's their own fault, because they're male.

slow handclap

And like fuck would you and dozens of other posters here tolerate their kids being taught by a trans woman.

Don’t twist what others have said.

Any male or female getting attacked is not acceptable for any reason. It was not implied that it was not.

It was stated that the prevalence did not make transitioned males ‘the most vulnerable and marginalised’ above other males who were also attacked.

And frankly, if transitioned males remained completely professional as a teacher, not pushing their own agendas and respected female single sex spaces, why would anyone have an issue compared to other male teachers ?

It seems you are entrenched in your belief that you are always persecuted due to a trans status. However, how much of it is just people disagreeing with your crossing of boundaries that you might feel you are entitled to. When you are not entitled to cross those boundaries at all.

No one should be ‘beaten up’ because they are different.

Even for those with a GRC, there are single sex exemptions in the Equality Act which allow single sex services to legally exclude them due to their sex, not the changed sex noted on documents -
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

'739.This paragraph contains an exception to the general prohibition of gender reassignment discrimination in relation to the provision of separate- and single-sex services. Such treatment by a provider has to be objectively justified.'

Examples of such services are given and include cervical screening and rape crisis services.

This is also allowable under the Occupational exemptions with examples of services given- www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/26/1

There's always talk of contravening human rights and genital inspections but the law as it stands allows for single sex spaces.

Compell speech

Yes, cause no one is more marginalised than.. checks notes.. the group that's had people sacked and cancelled, had laws changed to accommodate them, forced changes in the policies of refuges and shelters to the point they've pushed out the very people those refuges and shelters were designed for*

Yy

The thing that gives it away about the whole " marginalised " thing that's being bandied about is whats being asked.

Its not about a ramp so they cab get in the damn building

Its not about a space to pump breastmilk on your lunch break.

Its not subtitles on a screen so you can see qhats being said.

Its not some time off to recover from having a baby.

Its not about being allowed into a school so you can learn like.your male counterparts.

Its the " right" to complete speech
Its the " right" to undress with members of the opposite sex regardless of consent.

Its the " right" to remove the entire purpose of a space and centre it around someone else.

And it's the " right" to remove all the words that would explain.whats going on.

We do have to ask.ourselves if anyone should have those rights tbh

Brilliant post at 11:12 @ScribblingPixie, thank you

I wouldn't worry about it. He's wrong but I wouldn't let it ruin your relationship. My partner and I used to have massive rows about Corbyn. Eventually he saw I was right. These things happen.

Forget it and move on.