Disagreement with husband about trans debate

It's unavoidable, and you need to acknowledge it and move on, because at the end of the day it doesn't matter that much.

Doesn't this just wrap up this whole 'debate' into a single sentence? 'We'll do what we want and we don't give a fuck about your feelings or concerns'

Women -

Your feelings don't matter
Your concerns don't matter
The actual instances where women have been harmed don't matter

There seem to be an idea (insistence or threat is really a better way of describing it) that women give in and just allow their single sex spaces to be eradicated.

No.

Trans women in bathrooms don't go around swinging their penises in peoples faces lmao, they go in, do their business and leave like everyone else. The same goes for all trans people.

There's a prior in the loos filming themselves.
There's others in the loos cheering they made cis people uncomfortable.
There's some in loos for many reasons other than taking a shit.

What if there were lots of examples of TW who had actually swung their dicks in women's faces? (Spoiler, there are) Would that change your view?

how are you going to police it? Will everyone have to show their birth certificates on entry?

Why are you assuming trans people would need policing? Couldn't they just behave themselves?

Have you read the thread? What do you think of the discussion? Are you aware that the points you have raised have been answered? What did you think of those answers?

Are you entirely clear that you understand the word 'feminism' because from this post it looks like you don't.

Both of of your beliefs are founded in transphobia. You can call it "feminism" as much as you want, but as a feminist myself this isn't feminism. Trans women in bathrooms don't go around swinging their penises in peoples faces lmao, they go in, do their business and leave like everyone else. The same goes for all trans people. And lets say that you manage to make it illegal for trans people to go into their preferred bathroom, how are you going to police it? Will everyone have to show their birth certificates on entry? It is unreasonable and unnecessary. I'm not even going to get into surgery. By your logic, a trans man might have surgery, and now has a penis. If he is not allowed into the male bathroom, and has to go into the female one, there is still going to be a penis in your "women only" space. It's unavoidable, and you need to acknowledge it and move on, because at the end of the day it doesn't matter that much.

Its the women who pontificate about it that annoy me the most. I suppose I expect some men not to get it. However, decent, intelligent men with whom we may have chosen to have relationships, ought to put some effort into "getting it" in my opinion, even if it takes them a little while to get there.

What I don’t understand is this wokebro stance that stands up for trans rights rides roughshod over women and girls rights like they are nothing.

I have had to point this out in extremely clear terms to male colleagues who just vaguely think they are 'being kind' to a marginalised group.

What I don’t understand is this wokebro stance that stands up for trans rights rides roughshod over women and girls rights like they are nothing. Like Tom Harwood. It’s like they have no idea of the issues that women and girls face in terms of violence/rape/assault/trauma even though those stats and information are widely available and constantly reinforced by women and women’s rights organisations. How can they look at women and girls and the stats around how many of us are harassed, assaulted, raped, abused, murdered, oppressed and still spout on about ‘cis’ privilege - I JUST DON’T GET IT!!!!! How can people even cope with Stewart Lee putting a woman who fights against FGM in his bin list simply because TRAs don’t like the word female WHEN FGM OCCURS BECAUSE THEY ARE FEMALE, ITS A SPECIFICALLY SEX BASED CRIME? How can men not KNOW they need to STFU about this because it doesn’t impact on them, they aren’t having to give up their spaces, and they are not the sex who goes through life having to face/cope with/manage/tailor their behaviour to avoid sexual abuse from men or being subjected to it and having to find a way to recover.

Sorry to shout I’m just starting to lose my mind with all this.

I also appreciate OPs DP is not doing all these things but it’s just the mentality of it all. They don’t have the first fucking clue about life as a girl or woman.

OP I think with this whole topic tbh, we (women in general including myself) need to take control of conversation more.

All along, and because of sex roles, socialisation, really constant and involving so much including things so subtle we just aren't even aware that we comply...

We are always trying to explain, to be persuasive, to take time to explain why obvious total fucking nonsense is... Sorry but I don't agree... Here are reasons...

Asked questions that insult- why do you want to gatekeep femininity? Why do you want to exterminate a whole group of people? But women do it too do what's your problem...

With you DH sounds like standard scenario.

You are a woman.
You know what you think/want and why.
You know you are reasonable.

You're running around trying to respond to a statement made at you that he's saying you need to justify, so he can judge whether your opinion on women's spaces is ok or not...?!

Reverse it.

Say to him.

Your opinion that males with no penis should use female single sex facilities services etc (whatever his actual view is).

Can you explain why you believe that a male with no penis should use female stuff if wanted? Some specifics/ examples would be good!

I really wonder if he will answer straightforward.

Or if he will reply with another question. Tell me why you don't agree! Or question on different point. Or demand stats, proof. Any number of ways to not answer.

Don't let him. Hold strong. This is about women. You are one. You are the one who knows what's what.

He has zero experience of being female woman. In a world constructed by men for men.

Refuse any sidetrack.

Let's talk about that later. I really want you to tell me why no penis = ok. Make him spell it out. If he says no penis no sex offences. Say. Can you show me the things that you know that from? I'm not sure that's correct.
He says you Google. No. I only just heard this. You know this and want me to know as fact. I need to see things that you know this from...

I can guarantee that if like 99.999% of men he will drop it/ get annoyed/ really narked etc before you get very far.

If he wants to educate himself he should look up some of the sex crimes commited on children in Asia over the last 20-30 years. Being trans (or a eunch as they’re still called over there) hasn’t seemed to prevent attacks. Rape and forced mutilation still seems to be a rite of initiation in the underbelly areas.

Also, when a man has his penis removed, this does not undo male puberty to remove male advantage.
So how it can be fair for a man with or without a penis to compete against women?

OP, but how would he and you know that the man does or does not have a penis until 'she' is changing in front of your DD?

(If you have a DD, or insert other girls or women you know including you)

Disgusting.

Women who say no to men are generally mad. It's a known fact.

Harpies
Irrational
Don't live in real world
Have been so damaged by male violence OR are too ugly for any man to fuck, naturally leads to extreme ideas that bear no relation to reality
Hysterical
Neurotic
Paranoid
Obsessed

Etc etc

I mean this is common knowledge, right?

Assuming that person doesn't agree with most posters.

Then it's insane to know that male and female humans are different esp physically. And that sometimes do things separately because of that. And the risk which is 99.999% one way.

Omg! Where's those straightjackets?!

I find the Kwik fit example really strange tbh.

Would a TW with good skills and experience on their CV really automatically be discriminated against? Is one question...

I assume this example is to illustrate the discrimination that TW get, but why tyre fitting of all things?

Did the FACT that women are have been excluded, discriminated against, laughed at for even thinking to do that, etc etc. For years and years. Not cross that posters mind?! Seemingly AT ALL?!!

That is vv interesting and imo telling.

And I would be willing to bet a pint AND a packet pork scratchings.

That a TW who had a CV with the right skills and good experience. Who was a build that would mean the heavy parts of the job (tyres can be vv big and heavy) and the tools (designed for average man) were suitable...

Would automatically not get the job?

Given that would wear boots overalls etc for work... So just maybe long hair (which would be tied back securely obv, and a bit of makeup?

I'm not convinced that would be as big a deal as that poster imagines.

A woman? A young woman hoping to get trainee/junior role?

Would what. Have MORE chance that a TW of getting tyre fitting join Kwik fit? That's a huge massive guess isn't it. I mean obviously.

AND how likely is it that a TW want a job in Kwik fit anyway? Male env, overalls etc, dirty heavy work etc.

And if they did then I'm guessing they would be sensible enough to wear clothing that says yep heavy dirty work no probs. Keep makeup light/ none. And tie hair back.

This example is just weird on so many levels could do with more comment from poster on.. why that example!!!!

OP, you know that most trans people do not have surgery and you have DCs.

If you have a DD, how would your DH feel if she had to get changed in a room with a 'women' with a penis? & if she felt uncomfortable at signs telling her to accommodate as her feelings are not as important as the 'women's' feelings?

If you have a DS, would your DH feel proud if he grew into a man who used changing facilities in front of girls and had his women's penis on display?

What about the boundaries for safety and dignity?

What level of surgery would a transwoman have to have had for your husband to have sex with them?