Disagreement with husband about trans debate

@mothersisterlover

Do you have any awareness on why sex segregated spaces exist? Hint, it's not to #bekind.

i love how openly transphobic this has become

We (women) don't care if some people with a penis really really want to be "part of our community".
They can't be. The won't be. They'll never be.

It really does not matter that most people with a penis are harmless bunnies that are fluffy as clouds.
Don't care.

No people with a penis in women's spaces. That's all, no matter what.

I understand that sharing a toilet with someone with a penis might be unsettling to you in a culture where women are taught to be wary of men, but the person has gone out of their way to try to become a part of your community and the likelyhood of her putting that image out, working on it for years of her life, simply to trick you is, I assure you, not as great as you fear. And probably no more likely than someone entering your private area anyway

If this is supposed to be reassuring, and not incredibly creepy, you've missed it by a country mile

I understand that sharing a toilet with someone with a penis might be unsettling to you in a culture where women are taught to be wary of men

Oh look, more condescension.

There's many reasons women are wary of men, backed by evidence, research and crime rates. We're not 'taught' to be wary of men, we're killed, raped and abused by men in enormous numbers. 3 women a week on average are killed in the UK.

And for avoidance of doubt, I mean males, however they identify. And this is why self id is so, obviously, outrageously dangerous for women. How do we know which ones will harm us?

We can't.

You are saying that trans women commit 90% of violent crimes? That's uh- bold I guess

I would say more that you're not able to read the words that were written on the page in front of you. Read what's on the page. Not what you think is on the page.

Go on. Give it a try.

Sorry for my condescension, it was not in the spirit of the debate, I am genuinely sorry for being immature. However, it is interesting that you dismiss my claim with no reasoning of your own and essentially use my temporary lapse of temper to direct the focus away from all of your weak, hypocritical arguments. I understand that sharing a toilet with someone with a penis might be unsettling to you in a culture where women are taught to be wary of men, but the person has gone out of their way to try to become a part of your community and the likelyhood of her putting that image out, working on it for years of her life, simply to trick you is, I assure you, not as great as you fear. And probably no more likely than someone entering your private area anyway

You are saying that trans women commit 90% of violent crimes? That's uh- bold I guess

No. Obviously not. That would be stupid.

Come on. You must know this. Commit almost all violent crime? Testicles? Rhymes with hen? Not women?

And 'food for thought'?

Do fuck off with that condescending bullshit.

The attempted condensation of your posts, coupled with a complete lack of knowledge about the law is striking.

The Equality Act 2010 has 9 protected characteristics, including sex. And that means sex, not gender.

Transwomen are male. That's a fact. So are not eligible to access single sex spaces reserved for the safety and dignity of females.

I consider your comments to be bigoted agains the needs, feelings and reality faced by women. I also consider the phrase 'educate yourself' to be deeply condescending, used deliberately so.

Unfortunately there are many cases of criminals in any group!

What if there were two (very distinct) groups of people and one committed 90%+ of the violent and sexual crimes and the other didn't but did suffer greatly from those crimes? Would if make sense to keep some spaces for that second group?

I think it would. You don't. I can only assume that's because you are either stupid or psychopathic. I was trying to think of another reason but couldn't.

That's fine. You get on with shutting down MN. Let us know when you're done and we can turn the lights out.

Ahah you seem to misunderstand, the spaces are still single gendered spaces smile

Single sex spaces. Gender is not the same as sex. Do you not understand this? You need to educate yourself.

the only reason a woman should feel threatened by a trans-woman is if they are a transphobe

No, its because they are male. No males should be in women's single sex spaces.

Your whole argument is based on the belief that trans-woman are not women

They're not women. They wouldn't be trans if they were. Did you ever do biology? There's plenty of reputable resources online for you to educate yourself if not.

This is widely considered as an ignorant view in society

Not widely considered. But it may seem like that if you live in a twitter echo chamber. The cry of ignorance is such a boring old trope. Overused. To hide a lack of knowledge by the accuser.

however I believe that you can educate yourself! Good luck smile

I believe that education is something that would actually benefit you greatly. Do let me know if I can point you in the direction of actual facts, rather than dreams.

[quote Waitwhat23]@Mothersisterlover assuming this is not a clever satirical post, you have entirely misread the original. The 'how would it be policed' comments come as a result of a previous post of mine which addressed a claim that people with a GRC were legally allowed to access single sex spaces as they have 'changed their sex'.

My post read - Even for those with a GRC, there are single sex exemptions in the Equality Act which allow single sex services to legally exclude them due to their sex, not the changed sex noted on documents -
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

'739.This paragraph contains an exception to the general prohibition of gender reassignment discrimination in relation to the provision of separate- and single-sex services. Such treatment by a provider has to be objectively justified.'

Examples of such services are given and include cervical screening and rape crisis services.

This is also allowable under the Occupational exemptions with examples of services given- www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/26/1

There's always talk of contravening human rights and genital inspections but the law as it stands allows for single sex spaces.

The answer to this post was by Redlake who posted 'still impossible to police effectively'.

I then asked why we should not be wary of people deliberately accessing spaces (not just toilets as is tiresomely focused on by TRA's but rape crisis centres etc too) from which they are legally excluded due to their sex.

Like it or not, humans cannot change sex, the GRC is a legal fiction and even those with GRCs are not entitled to access specific single sex spaces.[/quote]
Sorry, I worded myself poorly, you must have misunderstood me, but it is nothing! All I'm saying is that trans women should be classified as women! Are you a woman yourself? Maybe you shouldn't be advocating for bigotted legislation to be iron-fast then, no? Food for thought.

[quote ErynIsTrans]@RepentMotherfucker Feminism is advocating for equality. This includes the equality of trans people, and therefore this isn't feminism.[/quote]
Yeah I knew you hadn't understood. That's OK - it's a common mistake this 'eminism is about equality for all' thing.

Feminism is about women. Adult Human Females.

HTH.

*toxic, horrible people can be found anywhere, that's not an excuse to ban Mumsnet just because there are so many people who are transphobic!
If I were to take this comment section as a gauge then I might have to shut down Mumsnet as a whole which would deprive so many people of crochet patterns

Strange that all of a sudden we have a couple of visitors - looks like the bat signal has gone out

Well. My type of feminism is about liberating females and females only. I also tend to be egalitarian in that I believe generally people should be equal. However, my departure from that is that I also believe that there are mechanisms that need to assist females to achieve equality due to their sexed bodies (ie, these will need to be in place for ever probably due to pregnancy and having children etc).

So, let's call that movement equality for all what it is 'allmanism'.

Feminism = female centred
'Allmanism' = equality for all and not centred on females only.

Because feminists are not everyone's mother and we are not responsible for looking after everyone else's interests above our own. Despite what the UN Women marketing team think.

@Mothersisterlover assuming this is not a clever satirical post, you have entirely misread the original. The 'how would it be policed' comments come as a result of a previous post of mine which addressed a claim that people with a GRC were legally allowed to access single sex spaces as they have 'changed their sex'.

My post read - Even for those with a GRC, there are single sex exemptions in the Equality Act which allow single sex services to legally exclude them due to their sex, not the changed sex noted on documents -
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

'739.This paragraph contains an exception to the general prohibition of gender reassignment discrimination in relation to the provision of separate- and single-sex services. Such treatment by a provider has to be objectively justified.'

Examples of such services are given and include cervical screening and rape crisis services.

This is also allowable under the Occupational exemptions with examples of services given- www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/26/1

There's always talk of contravening human rights and genital inspections but the law as it stands allows for single sex spaces.

The answer to this post was by Redlake who posted 'still impossible to police effectively'.

I then asked why we should not be wary of people deliberately accessing spaces (not just toilets as is tiresomely focused on by TRA's but rape crisis centres etc too) from which they are legally excluded due to their sex.

Like it or not, humans cannot change sex, the GRC is a legal fiction and even those with GRCs are not entitled to access specific single sex spaces.

@RepentMotherfucker Feminism is advocating for equality. This includes the equality of trans people, and therefore this isn't feminism.