Review of HP reunion in The Guardian…they just can’t help themselves

But saying 'die about it freak' isn't an actual death threat is it? Death threats are 'i will kill you if you don't shut up about x,y or z'.
The actual wording is "Die abt it freak." which doesn't make sense. Unless it is, perhaps, a DYAC for "deal with it freak."

Why was Reddit your first port of call for 'insight'?

I think where were talking at cross purposes, blackbird is that to me, respectful debate can only be engaged in when people tell the truth.

The screenshots you’ve posted contain manifest lies - about Maya F, about the book Troubled Blood being “about” a trans serial killer (without spoilering: it absolutely is not), that she is saying women who don’t menstruate aren’t women (she’s saying the exact opposite) - so respectful debate really isn’t possible, because one just gets pulled into refuting the un truths.

Hence the response from here comes across as dismissive, because people engaging in respectful, productive debate don’t usually feel it necessary to spend much time agonising over or engaging with people lying about what is going on.

Sophoclesthefox- Again, I'm not here to debate the content. Nor the point of people who I do not know, with whom I dont hold the same beliefs.

Milesjuppismybitch - Essentially, yes. I think that both sides have their own opinions and reasons for those opinions that they back up with their own "evidence". Not that only one side has a good argument and the other side never ever gives any example as to why they think what they think. Thus is my point.

Premise one: JKR is transphobic because of her support for Maya Forstater, who has been legally proven to be transphobic.

• unfortunately, none of this works because Maya wasn’t, and isn’t, and even if she was, supporting her for being fired isn’t in itself an act of transphobia. It’s guilt by association.

Premise two - JKR is transphobic because she believes that only women menstruate. In fact, only women - females - menstruate. much as women who wish they weren’t and men who wish they were women might wish that not to be so, menstruation is a biological process of females and only females. Compelling people to lie about this isn’t progressive, and neither is punishing people who don’t comply.

More to follow….

Oh, I see. So you're just saying that both sides can be polite? And have opinions.

I mean, I agree with that.

I didnt actively search for it so I only have the one

You did actively search for it as you searched for 'gender critical death'. It is in the search bar at the top of the post.

And you found 1. Someone who doesn't actually exist on twitter under the name @native_natami. So cannot be researched to see if they actually are gender critical or just posting to make it look as if gender critical people are issuing death threats.

But saying 'die about it freak' isn't an actual death threat is it? Death threats are 'i will kill you if you don't shut up about x,y or z'.

Here is Maya's Crowd Justice page (no longer active, so link should be allowed), where Maya tells her story.

Lees has turned her life round from being an under- age prostitute , aka, a victim of child sex abuse, to having a succesful media career.

I don't follow Lees on social media but I'm not aware of her tweeting rape threats etc.

MilesJuppismybitch - I'm not here to debate what is said in those posts as to whether it's true or false or if something was twisted, merely to point out that there are people who give their reasons as to why they think what they do, based off of things JKR has said/done/been involved in, in their opinion. Offering a better opinion than "because I say so" like some posters have said is "all they EVER get out of these people".

Right. Have you followed the Maya Forstater case? Because those tweets misrepresent it, woefully. I shall try and find a link.

Maya Forstater is not transphobic.

Also, the first screen-shot explicitly says that saying that trans women are men is transphobic.

The GC position is that it is not. It's just the truth.

I, personally, am a people pleaser, and in a real-life situation would use preferred pronouns to be polite.

But I don't believe people can change sex, and it's not right that - due to aggressive campaigning - I would feel too nervous to state that view in public.

It was the best I could find by some one who is known for speaking out on trans rights but isn't aggressive or resorts to insults

The best person you could find was someone who held a man up at gunpoint?

The best? How is holding a man up at gunpoint not aggressive?

A man who I believe went on to die as a result of the interaction with Lees.

Jesus wept I thought you were being sarcastic. But you were being serious?

I'll post more of the comments that I find as and when I find them.

'Sex is real' is a 'dogwhistle' now? Oh dear.

And here is a screenshot of a tweet from someone who has "I stand with JKR" in the bio that is telling someone to die. I didnt actively search for it so I only have the one. Another disclaimer: I dont believe that this person actually stands with JKR if they are issuing threats like that. Much like I dont believe the trans rights activits who sent threats to JKR stand with trans rights.

And this one.

I'm going to try and post some screenshots of posters who I think explained their reasons why they feel jkr is transphobic, rather than using "because I said so". Another disclaimer: I don't agree with everything being said by any means, I do not believe that JKR is transphobic. (I'm sorry if they're out of order, I cant figure out how to get them in order)

Kinda off track but I saw this on Twitter.

Daniel Radcliffe has Hogwarts growing out the top of his head.

Couldn't happen to a nicer person.

That's rather the point. It was the best I could find by some one who is known for speaking out on trans rights but isn't aggressive or resorts to insults. If anyone can come up with a calm, rational refutation of Rowling's stance Lees should be a prime candidate.

Sigourneyhoward - My point has never been that I've read posts that make me believe JKR is transphobic. I do not think that she is transphobic. My point was that I have seen plenty of posts online, by people who are against JKR, explain their reasons why in a larger comment that simply "shes transphobic. Why? Because.". I have not said I agree with their points, but simply that there are people who are posting extensive posts giving all the reasons and sources why they think JKR is transphobic.

I shall screenshot a few that I thought were good posts highlighting their reasons (whilst NOT agreeing with everything they're saying and thinking JKR is transphobic!)

Sorry to butt in but blackbird - am not sure posting a link to a reddit thread of over 2k comments is really what posters were expecting - which of the comments you've read struck a chord with you and made you think 'yes I see why JKR is transphobic'

Why not tell us which of the 2,300 comments you think is insightful and why?

Shedmistress - For goodness sake are you even reading what I'm posting? I literally just said that I haven't read them all, but find that SOME posters are getting their points across in the way that posters have requested and that I did NOT agree with everything they're saying.

Lol.

2.3k comments.

But you haven't read through.

But you agree with them, all 2.3k of them?

Did you just Google 'why JKR is transphobic'?

One of the things I find peculiar in all of this, is that for years many if us, whether knowingly GC or feminist or not probably knew at least one old school transsexual - I knew a couple in my 30s, both older, both "feminised" as far as practicable for the times, both of whom I just accepted as the person they were, without thinking much more beyond it other than seeing them apparently comfortable in their own lives and hell, none of my damn business pretty much.

Only when activism and the movements started does it seem women were suddenly forced to defend themselves from accusations of things that hadn't most likely even crossed their minds for the most part (sweeping generalisation admittedly based on my own experience). Women didn't start this fight, nor did they want it to happen, but faced with changes to language, the commercialisation, the demands that we censor ourselves and play nicely when actually we are being called upon to be complicit with our own erasure, not to mention the threats to safeguarding issues and the interference between parents and children from groups with agendas that may well not be in good faith at all, it wasn't as if we could say nothing as demanded...... so many of us tried to be kind, tried to live and let live, and then suddenly nothing was good enough.

JKR wrote thoughtfully about womens experience and also acknowledged that it is a human of any stripe issue as well, but her qualification is that she is a woman speaking her truth, her perspective and her opinion, which in this alleged Utopia of inclusion being touted deserves as much recognition and consideration as anyone else.

Instead we had tantrums. That's the best way I can describe it. Tantrums that ignored every scrap of nuance, and hideous abuse that just kept the divide growing. I can't help but wonder what the heck the end game is? Full on sex wars? I'm a pacifist on principle, but on occasion my militant bone rears its head.....but the constant appeasement is so damn exhausting.....