Review of HP reunion in The Guardian…they just can’t help themselves

@NotBadConsidering I don't agree that JKR shouldn't be associated with HP anymore, it's her life work I don't believe that anyone should try and take that away from her. But it is also their own life's work. I admit to not know how involved JKR was with the entire HP movie franchise, and whilst I agree that it remains hers, it is also "theirs" and believe they have a right to continue being associated with it, regardless on their thoughts of the author.

@Lovelyricepudding I've seen many people on here and in other places on the internet essentially saying that they owe her, that they should give back all the money made, remove HP from their CVs and never speak about it again if they don't agree with her - that's what I disagree with. I also can't say whether or not their actions were slander, as maybe they didn't see it that way, I have no clue as I haven't spoken to them. I also haven't seen anything from them purposefully slandering her or joining a "mob", but perhaps I've missed something?

They may not owe her anything contractually but it is not about what they owe her. Their actions were not even a disagreement with her stance, their actions were slander. They joined the mob presenting her as something she is not.

[quote Blackbird1234]@NotBadConsidering Don't get me wrong, I fully respect your opinion and you're completely entitled to it. I just don't agree that they "owe" JKR anything more than the terms of their contract (if they had one), certainly not as they no longer appear to have one. She's someone they worked with and much as I wouldn't expect JKR to put her morals aside, I don't expect them to either and find it silly when people say the actors should give all the money back/never do anything more related to HP just because they don't agree with JKR about something that has nothing to do with the job they once did.[/quote]
But it’s not a job they once did, it’s a job they’re still doing! With this special! They’re benefiting from that, likely financially and with exposure. If they had morals they would have refused to appear. By doing so they’re sending out the message that it’s their thing more than hers and she is the one who shouldn’t be associated with HP anymore.

@NotBadConsidering I get what you're saying and I agree that no one should be deemed something blindly, of course. However even if an explanation was given by one of the cast members, or anyone who disagrees with JKR, it still wouldn't be good enough. I have seen it on mumsnet as well as twitter and other forums, someone does give a very insightful explanation of their opinion and it is still deemed "not good enough" by the majority of JKR supporters. That's kind of my point - we will all base our opinion of the explanation off our own standards and people will likely always "fail" at that if you disagree with their opinion in the first place (general you, not specifically you).

Well, it’s different because Trump is campaigning for votes and to run a country. But everyone who disagrees with her owes us an explanation, because like you say it’s condemnation. I don’t think anyone should be condemned as a bigot without explanation, and that includes Trump. The fact we have blind condemnation without explanation is why people like Trump get elected in the first place, because there’s only a side to choose, not a position to consider.

I think the public is owed an explanation from them because they’re asking people to go along with them, accept them for the position they’ve taken, and accept they’re right and she is wrong. Why? The only people who are happy they haven’t explained themselves are those who are happy to condemn her without having read what she said, because it’s clear information and discussion won’t allow the outcome they want: condemnation of JKR.

Even if they’ve had private conversations with her, they could still explain their objections. They could say nothing. Instead they have blindly condemned. They have seen what this means - the death and rape threats - and have done nothing to back up their position. To that end, they’re no different to those vile people; willing to condemn a woman for her opinion just “because”.

@NotBadConsidering Don't get me wrong, I fully respect your opinion and you're completely entitled to it. I just don't agree that they "owe" JKR anything more than the terms of their contract (if they had one), certainly not as they no longer appear to have one. She's someone they worked with and much as I wouldn't expect JKR to put her morals aside, I don't expect them to either and find it silly when people say the actors should give all the money back/never do anything more related to HP just because they don't agree with JKR about something that has nothing to do with the job they once did.

@NotBadConsidering I posted before your next post popped up. I get your anger at that, but we just really can't dictate whether his response/tweet was good enough as we are only going by our own standards. Maybe he thought that was absolutely good enough to get his stance across without entering into a debate and that's his incentive.

@NotBadConsidering I understand what you mean, but why do they owe anyone an explanation? There have been more "celebs" than I can count over the years who have "condemned" someone else and no in depth explanation has been given, and that's been fine. The first that comes to mind is people saying they weren't voting for Trump. We already know why they disagree with JKR, we just don't have a very long and in depth explanation, which I don't think anyone in the public is owed. For all we know, perhaps some of the cast members have spoken extensively to JKR about this in private, we have no idea, we can all only base our own opinions off of what is in the spotlight, which is controlled by them all including by JKR.

To give an example, after Rowling’s tweet about Wimund, Radcliffe responded with “TWAW”. The objection, had he actually been paying attention, should have been “TMAM, and don’t like to be described as women, so I can see how those transmen might need to be included in a description about menstruation”.

But he didn’t. He said “TWAW”.

Vacuous, meaningless, contributing to the hate around her opinion, all so he can save his own skin in Twitter world.

Fuck him.

[quote DoYouSeaWhatISea]I do enjoy Lucy Mangans writing (and miss her Tory boy commentary), but I’m not convinced if she actually would be team JKR. I’d love it if she was, maybe I’m taking this article the wrong way.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/aug/09/lucy-mangan-terf-war[/quote]
I just had a skim read of that... It was seven years ago, and I suspect (from the Twitter birthday thread posted upthread with JKR and Julie Bindel) that her thinking has evolved since then. Even that article seems more "what is all this silly fuss about, can't we all get along?" than "TWAW, terfs must die".

No that’s not it. They should actually pay attention to what she’s saying, and if they disagree explain why, not blindly condemn her with slogans and platitudes catering to the baying mob. Not a single one of them has indicated why they think she’s wrong, just jumped on the bandwagon saying she is wrong without qualification for the sake of their own careers.

It just all sounds rather ridiculous. Once upon a time they said they were friends with her, so they need to support her forever no matter what? They played in films that she created, so they need to support her forever no matter what, even if the things she has said goes against their own morals? They should just forget all their own morals, standards and opinions because the woman who created HP deserves support no matter what she says? Seems quite hypocritical to me.

Above was also in reply to @KimikosNightmare, sorry, damn tagging!

@MsGrumpytrousers If its "everything they do, everything they say" then perhaps it's safe to assume that you think that simply because you really don't like them? I rarely see any of them in the media at all and when I do see an interview of them, I don't get the same impression. Tom Cruise I've always hated and would say the same as you, however...

@Kanaloa I believe everyone is entitled to hold whatever view they like about their boss, as long as yes, they show them respect in the business world. The actors' views on JKR seem centred around this one topic that JKR spoke out about herself, a while after HP was finished and she was no longer their "boss". As far as I can tell they've all shown her respect in the business world plenty a time. JKR isn't permanently attached to this one thing, she is a whole person with more achievements than just HP - you can rave about the books whilst holding issue with the author, its not an either or.

@MistressoftheDarkSide yep, they could have very easily said 'I disagree with what she has said but the abuse she is receiving is unacceptable'.

But nothing. Lots of 'ignore the nasty lady and just enjoy the world she created' but no mention of the outright vilification she has received.

The fear of that ire being turned on them has meant that they have taken the easy route - keep your head down and maybe the crowd won't bay for your blood. Never mind about the woman they have claimed in the past to be their friend.

I do enjoy Lucy Mangans writing (and miss her Tory boy commentary), but I’m not convinced if she actually would be team JKR. I’d love it if she was, maybe I’m taking this article the wrong way.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/aug/09/lucy-mangan-terf-war

Whether you're a Potter fan or not, the lack of human compassion and loyalty they've shown towards a friend is pretty poor.

Just posting a Guardian announcement.

[quote Blackbird1234]@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime So if they find her - the person, not the businesswoman - insufferable, they need to give back all the money they've made with HP? Shit, I find my boss insufferable, guess I best quit and pay back all the money I've earned over the past 6 years. Also, they're adults.[/quote]
No, you don't need to pay your wages back but if your boss is the owner/ creator of a business which enables you to earn a wage they (assuming they abide by their side of the employment contract) are entitled to respect and a degree of loyalty.

If anyone feels there is a moral imperative to publicly trash their employer's reputation they really should look for another job first.

[quote Blackbird1234]@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime So if they find her - the person, not the businesswoman - insufferable, they need to give back all the money they've made with HP? Shit, I find my boss insufferable, guess I best quit and pay back all the money I've earned over the past 6 years. Also, they're adults.[/quote]
Well no but you need to stand by your morals to an extend. You can’t rave about this ‘magical wonderful story world’ while publicly criticising and denouncing the woman who created it.

A lot of these actors are pretty irrelevant without Harry Potter but they should stand by their morals to some extent, instead of complimenting themselves for playing the characters while ignoring and criticising the woman who created them.

It all just feels a bit pathetic as well, like they’re so desperate to be ‘in’ with the fans that they’ll literally say anything if it’s the ‘right’ thing to say.

[quote Blackbird1234]@Justme56 Out of interest, what makes you say that the actors are self obsessed?[/quote]
Since Justme hasn't answered, can I just say that it's everything they say and everything they do? You only need to read a few interviews. I've never understood why anyone fawns over 'gorgeous' actors – they so often seem like narcissists. Pretty faces, empty heads. Yuck.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime So if they find her - the person, not the businesswoman - insufferable, they need to give back all the money they've made with HP? Shit, I find my boss insufferable, guess I best quit and pay back all the money I've earned over the past 6 years. Also, they're adults.

JK Rowling’s comments on trans people have attracted controversy. How do you feel about that?

I don’t understand what it feels like to be so affected by that so I fully respect when people have to protect their own emotions and their own mental health.

It does make me sad that this has happened and that people have had to step away from something that brought them comfort and joy.

Whatever her comments, I know Jo to be a super-compassionate and kind person and I still hope for healing. I don’t think that conversation is finished.

And if she and all her works are insufferable, they DEFINITELY ought not to be celebrating the works while trying to pretend the person doesn't exist.