To not understand the issue with surrogacy?

This thread is about surrogacy.

Your constant attempts to derail it probably is a very good indication that you need to start your own thread about these issues.

So let me ask you all this -

you have a scenario whereby the biological parents won’t/can’t comply with SS and the interests of the child. (Drug adddicts, alcoholics, situations of abuse…)

They are removed…..

They are place within a family that van provide for them physically and emotionally.,physical ok that they have their own room etc…. Emotionally in that they don’t misuse substances etc…..

Now, unless the parents can become ‘clean’ would you honestly argued that they should be kept with their birth parents every time…

If so, I’m soo pleased that it’s not your choice

My disgruntlement is with those that think smackheads, :abusive/shit parents (or those than can’t put their kids first) should get to keep them because they’re biologically related…..

Actually, I don’t believe anyone has stayed this. I think you will find that every time you raised it, the focus was attempted to be brought back to surrogacy.

I, along with many others on the thread I am sure, would expect that professionals with excellent safeguarding experience would use the existing laws to make decisions about each and every case of abusive family situations. And would also look at the best resources to support the child and the family.

But I don’t believe that your comparison is relevant to surrogacy, and I was not alone in pointing that out.

As we kept pointing out the major differences between adoption and surrogacy. Although there may be intersecting issues, they are two different things.

I am happy to repeat the difference, yet again.

My disgruntlement is with those that think smackheads, :abusive/shit parents (or those than can’t put their kids first) should get to keep them because they’re biologically related…..

Not one single person has said that on this thread. From what I've seen on other threads I doubt it happened anywhere else either.

You completely made that up.

For future reference, Questioning something (or the effects of it) , doesn't mean you want banned or that you agree with/support any and all worse alternative scenarios.

The dehumanisation is very clear isn’t it? third-party reproduction
FFS.

[quote Bunnyfuller]@Starcup

Are you saying I am mistaken in how I feel? As in I am suffering, I just don’t know it?!

I’m aware lots of people think the process of removing a baby from the birth mum is damaging. If you look into early history this was often the case and babies were raised by the tribe generally, often not even breast fed by their bio mum. I think sometimes we look for issues as a rule rather than the exception.

There are a million reasons a child may not be raised by bio parents, and it isn’t a negative thing by default. The one thing that actually pisses me off about being adopted, is those outside it assuming it is somehow ‘less’.[/quote]
Bunny, I agree with you.

Please take the time to read the last few pages of the thread and know I completely agree with you.

My disgruntlement is with those that think smackheads, :abusive/shit parents (or those than can’t put their kids first) should get to keep them because they’re biologically related…..

I know it’s a minefield of those that think they know best

Every single post on the thread.

Apologies.

Open to negotiations
First timer
Open to negotiations
Older and overlooked
Open to negotiations
Ball park figure, agency will sort it
Open to negotiations

My favourite, pick a surrogate that doesn't have a job and make surrogacy her "job".

Not only you can avoid pesky costs like lost wages, but she'll probably be desperate enough if she's jobless. More open to negotiations too.

KimikosNightmare

I does seem like we circled around again…

Thanks for clarifying. I didn’t recall anyone saying adoptions should be banned, or anything like that about adoption, but I have not read every single thread.

Is ‘hen’ meant to be another insult? Are you calling me ‘chicken’? I don’t think I have showed a fear of posting at all.

Joke all you want @Helleofabore but that name has been banned and whilst someone has resurrected it, I wouldn’t keep jumping in the playground circle with it, because they are obviously perceived to have extreme views ( and were banned) carry on though hen…..

Yes. Lang Cleg was banned and the board was poorer for the banning. Lang Cleg was a safeguarding expert.

I would like to know what extreme views you are attributing to her? Be very specific please.

You might realise that there are a number of posters who reference Lang Cleg in their name. It is not against any MN posting guidelines to do so.

So, please do be specific- what did Lang Cleg post that was extreme. Her posts are still active on many many threads so you can easily research them.

So I wouldn’t align yourself too close…. Just saying 😉😉😉😉

To add - I’m a pain in the arse at times and I own it. I seldom come on the feminist boards as i know they get heated, christ everyone knows that but you’ll still get your ‘hardcore’ feminists ‘Lang et al’ who are that ridiculous they are banned

[quote Bunnyfuller]@Starcup

Are you saying I am mistaken in how I feel? As in I am suffering, I just don’t know it?!

I’m aware lots of people think the process of removing a baby from the birth mum is damaging. If you look into early history this was often the case and babies were raised by the tribe generally, often not even breast fed by their bio mum. I think sometimes we look for issues as a rule rather than the exception.

There are a million reasons a child may not be raised by bio parents, and it isn’t a negative thing by default. The one thing that actually pisses me off about being adopted, is those outside it assuming it is somehow ‘less’.[/quote]
No one is saying that in all circumstances of surrogacy or adoption that the child will be unhappy or suffer. What has been said is that the potential for this to happen needs to be considered in the formulation of any legislative framework for surrogacy; the child has rights that need to be considered and protected, not glossed over because a woman has freely chosen to be a surrogate or the intended parents seem nice and well off. While there are bound to be children of surrogacy or adoption who are happy and will always be happy, there are those who aren’t or won’t be in the future. Legislation needs to consider these scenarios. If we fail to protect the vulnerable or consider very predictable possible outcomes I think that would be a failing.

In the cases of adoption when the newborn is removed from its mother if she is deemed unfit, usually a judge has to declare that the baby can actually be removed, because it’s considered such a monumental decision to do so. But in surrogacy, the baby is just…removed. That’s the kind of discrepancy that is being considered.

Joke all you want @Helleofabore but that name has been banned and whilst someone has resurrected it, I wouldn’t keep jumping in the playground circle with it, because they are obviously perceived to have extreme views ( and were banned) carry on though hen…..

I'm sure you did, and I think it was you I was replying to. It's hard to remember it all. Especially since it's so cyclical.

[grin] (for the cyclical reference - definitely not your other posts. Which I have appreciated reading greatly.

Ironically I didn't want to post the whole sordid story, as I didn't want to derail from the actual thread which was about surrogacy.

Who is full of shit?

So what do you suggest??

Children’s homes? No adoptions at all…..?

Are you confusing me with someone else?

Or just determined that I am in the wrong with everything I post?

Are you saying I am mistaken in how I feel? As in I am suffering, I just don’t know it?!

Well, maybe you're just in denial, because the truth is too painful. Or you pushed that side of you what wanted you real mammy away, and lost touch with it. How are we supposed to know?

Removing babies from their birth mother is always damaging. Surrogacy should be banned.

I simply can't take the irony...

Enjoy your trip about the threads on this board Star. Truly, your voice is a welcome addition. I look forward to hearing all your thoughts on feminism and where feminists have gone wrong all these years. I especially look forward to all your helpful suggestions on how things should be done from now on.

Sorry I can’t say the same as I think you’re full of sh*t