To not understand the issue with surrogacy?

Earthsight Yes!

I think there are a couple of 'false flag' comments on here. One from a poster who ALWAYS posts TRA supportive comments all over FWR and AIBU and another quoting that and agreeing with it. Both ostensibly supporting 'traditional families'.

MN have removed one. I've just asked them to look at the other.

Can't think of much that's lower in debating terms than posting homophobia on a website you don't like so you can get your mates riled up about how reactionary that website is.

In some North African cultures it's customary for siblings to have a baby for their childless sibling. If you read 18th century history that's also not anything unusual either. Many countries have high rates of children being born with different actual fathers to those on the birth cert. This whole site is full of people whose children have unless parent(s) that they won't be around long term, if they're lucky.

And we now know a lot more from the child’s perspective on how they feel about this. Do you honestly think that historical incidences mean it is ok now? What else do you apply that to?

And you comparator of ‘useless’ parents is in no way relevant to people commoditising a woman’s womb and designing a child for the purpose to fulfill a wish for a family.

I don't get the repeated conflation of adoption and surrogacy on this thread. They are two very different scenarios, as repeatedly outlined by various posters.

Gay adoption? Crack on, if you're in a position to provide a stable and loving home. Gay men using a woman to provide a baby, usually purchased as a commodity? Completely different, and IMO not ok. It's nothing to do with them being gay (except that's why they can't have a baby of their own), it's about women and children being commodified. Whether the commissioning parents are gay, straight or whatever is not relevant.

@PurpleDaisies

I would also like to see where and which comments, because otherwise unless someone can show me that this opinion is commonplace here, it leads me to think that certain people would like the following to happen -

Women start discussing something that does, or has the potential to inhibit what men want.

Quickly link their opinions with the following -

Transphobia

Homophobia

Racism

Whorephobia

What homophobic comments have you seen on this board or Mumsnet, Flowers500

@crunchermuncher

before I was on mumsnet/read up about the ethics of surrogacy, I honestly never considered how the baby actually gets made for a surrogate pregnancy in very much detail. I guess I just assumed it was some sort of fertility treatment or arranged conception, but I didnt know about the effects on womens bodies as a result of fertility treatment, or how much is actually involved.

@Blackbird1234 - you apparently live in France. You know that surrogacy is illegal in France right?

I'm another who doesn't see a scale. It's all wrong.

Also I think there is a decent bit of homophobia on here that opposes gay men even adopting.

On this thread? Where?

I have never seen anyone here telling anyone to 'educate themselves'. That's a phrase normally directed at us Terfs in a drive by woke scolding.

But assuming you are for real OP, how do you think the embryo gets implanted into a surrogate mother without the need for fertility drugs? A woman's body isn't just ready for a random embryo to be plopped in and 'cooked' to order. Drugs need to be used to prepare the surrogate woman's body to receive the embryo (unless it's her own egg and a turkey baster)!

"Also I think there is a decent bit of homophobia on here that opposes gay men even adopting."

Here, on this thread?? Really?

@Blackbird1234

I get it, I didnt realise anything was really wrong with surrogacy until quite recently! I just hadn't ever really thought about it and also didn't really realise what a newborn was like, I always thought along the lines of well if the baby is well loved etc, then what is the harm. I see differently now, but I understand why someone might not know much about it at all or about the questionable ethics.

also love your username

It's definitely complex and difficult but I don't understand a lot of the outright vitriol on here.

In some North African cultures it's customary for siblings to have a baby for their childless sibling. If you read 18th century history that's also not anything unusual either. Many countries have high rates of children being born with different actual fathers to those on the birth cert. This whole site is full of people whose children have unless parent(s) that they won't be around long term, if they're lucky.

The issue for me is when it comes to potential exploitation of women in poor situations, but I have no problem with the basic concept. Also I think there is a decent bit of homophobia on here that opposes gay men even adopting.

I used to think surrogacy was fine and a nice thing to do before I had my DS. then I realised how vulnerable newborns are and how much they need their mother and are connected to each other. and also seen on here other people saying we don't take puppies, kittens etc from their mums before 8 weeks and so how come it's OK for human babies? and I changed my mind.

I am aware that I am in a privileged position to have my DS, and that surrogacy is often used when couples can't have their own baby. however I don't think it's a right to have a biological child. especially if what is a want of the parents is being placed about the rights of the child.

OP
You know the issues.
Read the dog board - especially the puppy farms threads on here, and then wonder WTF it's ok for human babies.

[quote Blackbird1234]@Dozer That's strange, why would they ask a woman who needs fertility treatment? Or do you always need it when being a surrogate?[/quote]
Because having a surrogate who is not the biological mother is often used as a way to strengthen the claim over the baby of the biological/intended parent so should there be any attempt by the mother to back out of the surrogacy arrangement they can claim that their biological link (either the sperm or the egg or both) 'trump' the rights of the mother who has carried and birthed the baby.

It doesn't matter if that specific woman is vulnerable. The system of surrogacy in the states exploits vulnerable women and therefore anyone who participates in it is contributing to exploitation.
You don't have much class analysis. Ethics is rarely about the individual example.

OP if your question about fertility treatment was genuine then you are clearly astonishingly naive about the process and what is involved, and how invasive, physically and emotionally, it is for women to go through any pregnancy but especially a high risk pregnancy and then to hand the baby over at the end of it, something that we don't do to a dog.

Look at the actual prostitution industry.

Women's bodies are not commodities. Babies are not commodities.

[quote ontana]**@Dozer That's strange, why would they ask a woman who needs fertility treatment? Or do you always need it when being a surrogate?

Are you for real OP?? [/quote]
It's looking increasingly unlikely TBF...