To not understand the issue with surrogacy?

I’m not actively trying to change the policy, I never will. Most people generally don’t get involved with policy making unless it affects them. That’s the same for anything

Yes, because leaving policy discussion around surrogacy down to those who only benefit from surrogacy, is sure to end well 🙄.

Really?

I think if that is the case you are out of your intellectual depth here. As in life presumably...

**You haven’t said much really. “Women can choose, be damned with the consequences.”

Everyone has different opinions. It’s the opinions that are thought through and worked out that should count towards policy change, not the ones just randomly stated**

I’m not actively trying to change the policy, I never will. Most people generally don’t get involved with policy making unless it affects them. That’s the same for anything…

**Surrogacy is unethical because it is bad for babies.

You have not presented any argument or evidence whatsoever to counter that on this thread. Not once**

And here we go again, I’ll reply the same to you then you present the same question back…

There are lots of situations where t babies are brought in to the world when it wouldn’t be in the interest of the baby…. But because the mother wants one that trumps everything.

I’ll create a framework and send it to you tomorrow

I look forward to you solving a problem that grown ups policy makers haven’t been able to solve despite years of trying.

Everyone has different opinions. It’s the opinions that are thought through and worked out that should count towards policy change, not the ones just randomly stated.

You have not presented any argument or evidence whatsoever to counter that on this thread. Not once.

I’ll create a framework and send it to you tomorrow 🙄😂

@RepentMotherfucker

I’ve said all I’ve got to say really throughout the thread. Look through and you’ll find your answers.

It doesn’t matter to me what anyone on here thinks. Everyone has different opinions

Yes they can risk assess the situation for themselves max you don’t need to be involved.

How does someone getting a tattoo risk assess whether the tattoo parlour is going to give them Hepatitis C? If the client thinks it’s safe but contracts the disease, whose fault is that?

How does a surrogate risk assess the legal implications of a surrogacy? If she miscarries, or is going to undertake an abortion, or is recommended a caesarean but doesn’t want one and something goes wrong, and so on, and so on, whose fault is that?

You don't actually seem to understand how arguments work. At all. I don't know why you think this is a good debating tactic. It's the logical equivalent of, 'Murder is bad' ' Yeah but so is child abuse so murder is actually ok'. It just makes no sense.

Surrogacy is unethical because it is bad for babies. You clearly don't have any argument at all to refute that. Because there isn't one. So you just keep banging on about other things that are bad for babies. It's weird!

No, back to my unanswered questions first

I’ll take that as you disagree with the NHS paying for IVF. I think that’s what you were saying…..

But do you know what, men have nothing to do with the best friend surrogate do they…..

There’s another thread currently running about a woman using a sperm bank and I dread to think what any of you would say to her. I sincerely hope you aren’t as judgmental about her decision… poor woman if you lot get on to her

No it's ok Star the men are already in charge, reforming the surrogacy laws. Remember Ollie Locke? He wants to reform the laws, to his own end. We can trust him to make good decisions can't we? Let the men get on and do what they do best.

If you had your way I'd be leaving them to it because my views are too extreme but

because I am allowed to think for myself

I'll ignore you.

Choice choice choice. There you go

Choice to get a tattoo. Let’s not worry about making sure recipients don’t contract Hepatitis B or C.

Choice to drink. Let’s not worry if someone gets behind a wheel.

Do you think everyone should be free to choose to do whatever they want and no one should put any protections in place?

So you think these women should be allowed to choose, then who cares about the consequences?

Oh and @OhHolyJesus do you agree or disagree with IVF? Either using donor eggs or a woman’s own eggs?

I thought I read on the other thread your criticisms?

I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m wrong

Stay at home now, be a good girl. No no, you can’t do XY or Z, you can’t be trusted to make decisions sweetheart

Cotton wool anyone?

Surrogacy is bad for babies. Therefore it is unethical. That is as simple as I can make it

So is bringing babies up in shit circumstances in general it could be argued but that would apply to far more people so that doesn’t count…..

Yes it was me OhHolyJesus

I didn't know half what I know now back then or I'd have been able to ask much better questions. But another person asked about egg donation, and when pushed they announced they were lawyers, not doctors. You'd think in that case they might have asked for someone from the RCOG or something to contribute to the consultation but they aren't concerned about safeguarding the health of mothers.

I thought this might be a good time to kink a surrogacy resource thread I started two years ago. It could probably do with having some new material added to it. The consultation seems a long time ago now, and the date for presenting recommendations to parliament has been put back twice I think. Currently I believe late 2022 is the goal.

Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3782983-surrogacy-resource-thread-please-post-your-links-here

I don’t create a legal framework

TBH I think it's just as well as I agree that you appear to be

someone who doesn't seem to really understand any of the ethical issues involved; ignores all points made and questions posed and constantly says, 'good luck explaining that to all the people who do x' as though that's a winning argument.

It is a shame then that those making the laws, so far, would probably follow Star's debating tips.

@FannyCann was it you who went to a public consultation event and they said "we're not doctors" in response to a question from the audience? As if it was a very silly idea, that doctors might be involved in a law change being built around surrogacy which er...involves conception, pregnancy and labour...

There’s a lot of hand waving and putting things in the too hard basket.

I think my question about known risk and no known risks must also have been tossed in this basket, can someone root it out? I'd really like to know the answer, or is there no known answer?