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Original poster

To not understand the issue with surrogacy?

987 replies

Blackbird1234 · 30/12/2021 18:29

I've seen a few posts on some threads in this topic, from people condemning surrogacy. I don't understand why it is seen as bad, if all parties consent. Can anyone explain, please?

OP posts:
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13
Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:55

On face value

Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:54

@Helleofabore

Oh my god. Are you handing out respect like gold stars?

Well, that is a new one.

I just think some points of view are note worthy than others…… GrinGrinGrin
Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:53

@Helleofabore

Whatabout Whatabout.
😂😂😂 sane ‘mate’ same 😂😂😂
OhHolyJesus · 02/01/2022 22:53

Imagine this time in 10 years. Women will have their own voice yessss

Their own voice? 😆 oh you poor thing.

You haven't been around this board for long have you?

I'll leave you to explore what the particular type of feminism that resides here, and why it exists and also why the boards were split. There is much to learn and enjoy.

Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:50

@NotBadConsidering

I don’t think it’s something people go in to without serious consideration

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/AMA/3806707-Im-becoming-a-surrogate-AMA

Just had first transfer in hopes of becoming a surrogate for a friend. Ask away.

Q. What happens to the baby if both dads, for example, die in a car accident before delivery?

A. Oooo interesting. I’ll ask them

So yes actually, people do go surrogacy into without serious consideration.

So should’ve be bam driving because some people go in to it without considerations and subsequently crash……?
NotBadConsidering · 02/01/2022 22:49

ldontWanna

Well done on offering an answer to the questions others couldn’t or wouldn’t come up with themselves. As you’ve subsequently noted though, it still doesn’t solve many issues and it’s still buying a baby.

For example, if the intended parent(s) refuse to take the baby like in the real world example earlier in the thread, what then?

As I have said, it’s impossible for all rights to be protected. For surrogacy to take place, it has to be acknowledged that someone’s rights will be infringed in some way or another. On balance, infringing the right of a woman to “choose” to be a surrogate is the least impactful, least traumatic, least exploitative, because the only argument offered against that is that her “right” to potentially help out an infertile loved one is removed.

This is no different from society preventing people from freely choosing to do many things that may see them benefit individually, but society deems it detrimental. Otherwise it would be literally anarchy.

PurpleDaisies · 02/01/2022 22:49

Not all countries…… the most powerful country in the world accepted it.

America? Did you miss that surrogacy is governed on a state by state basis? It’s certainly not the “America thinks it’s brilliant and allows it in all cases” that you’re implying in your post.

Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:48

@RepentMotherfucker

Which bit of my post says I am assuming things won't change? I specifically said I am arguing that they shouldn't.

Are you high?

But they will, so you must be high or pissed to think your opinion counts….
Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:46

@OhHolyJesus

Just because something is illegal now

Jesus wept. Surrogacy isn't illegal in the U.K. it is legal. Commercial surrogacy is illegal. Altruistic surrogacy is legal. Proposals take us closer to commercial surrogacy. I see you're quick to comment and as a result perhaps you are not absorbing much. What did you think the public consultation, mentioned back on...oh I don't know, page 4 or 5, was about?

I recon over the next few years a few things will change and with the whole equality movement etc…. Watch this space!!

So you don't understand what law reform means and didn't clock that this is already happening in the U.K. despite it being mentioned several times?

This "whole equality movement" of which you speak, what does that mean? Equality for women? Equality for men?

Errrrr it’s illegal for business arrangements!

Brilliant 🤩 it means women can make their own decisions without having to have other women say ‘Noooooo you can’t’

Imagine this time in 10 years. Women will have their own voice yessss

Helleofabore · 02/01/2022 22:46

@ldontWanna

I thought it was quite an inspired reply to that particular statement.. but what do I know?Grin
I’l give you your star back. 🌟 Platypus eggs was an inspired answer for the type of post your were answering. Grin
Bunnyfuller · 02/01/2022 22:45

I’m an adopted baby, 1967. How have I suffered? Do tell me please.

OhHolyJesus · 02/01/2022 22:45

@ldontWanna

I thought it was quite an inspired reply to that particular statement.. but what do I know?Grin
Well they do lay eggs so based on fact.

That's progress I think...

I feel like we need a summary of this thread so far but I'm too tired to contemplate the circular, repetitive nature of it it at this stage.

Helleofabore · 02/01/2022 22:43

Whatabout Whatabout

Because some ‘big countries’ do it, so should everyone.

I take it you mean the USA. And we have posted pages and pages on the issues with the USA. It is hardly the gotcha you seem to think it is. Maybe you didn’t read things posted.

Currently in New York (as has been mentioned before) ‘reproductive equality’ is being pushed. So that gay male couples have the ‘right’ to hire an egg donor, hire a womb to have a child of their ‘creation’.

And in general, I would not put the US as a very stellar example of a human rights leader.

But the situation has been quite well covered already on this thread. Remember the targeting of university students for donor eggs?

My answer to this is ‘so what’? Should we be taking lessons from them on this and other human rights issues?

Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:42

@crunchermuncher

Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:41

So do you have any thoughts on this?

Yes- my thoughts are they are your opinions!

ldontWanna · 02/01/2022 22:40

I thought it was quite an inspired reply to that particular statement.. but what do I know?Grin

OhHolyJesus · 02/01/2022 22:35

@Helleofabore

Oh my god. Are you handing out respect like gold stars?

Well, that is a new one.

She giveth and she taketh away...Smile
Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:34

@Helleofabore

You seem to want the impossible

What adequate safeguarding for women and children?

There is a reason why other countries ban all surrogacy. It is not an impossible situation.

Not all countries…… the most powerful country in the world accepted it.

They have 330 million plus people compared to 66 million….

Doesn’t see to that many opposing views….

Helleofabore · 02/01/2022 22:34

Oh my god. Are you handing out respect like gold stars?

Well, that is a new one.

Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:30

you

Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:29

@ldontWanna

But I agree with you that it’s immoral for companies to target women specifically

Who the fuck else would they specifically target for egg donations? Platypuses?!?

Just read your reply to this and my respect for Young’s disappeared.

What a shame…….

Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:27

@DaisiesandButtercups

“So what would happen to the kids that were removed from their parents?

If adoption wasn’t legal, what would become of the kids? Just children’s homes?

That would be a worse outcome for the child for sure in most cases…. What is he thinking”

He is thinking that in the interests of children their birth certificates should never be altered and that families in poverty should be supported by the state so that they can stay together, that any stigma against single mothers should be ended in order that mothers and babies can stay together.

He is particularly against international adoption but also argues that nationally fostering is preferable to adoption in cases where the parents are abusive, beyond help or dead. This last part about fostering being preferable to adoption is not what I would have said myself before listening to him. I am not sure I am convinced but I accept his argument about not changing birth certificates, I’m not sure that happens in the UK, I thought that an adoption certificate was a separate document but I need to look into that further. He has an interesting and relevant argument though. I invite you to listen to him yourself to discover what he says and how you feel about it, or have a look at his website.

Thank you. I will look in to it. My understanding of the social services involvement in children, is that it isn’t to do with poverty issues as such, but whether parents are able to safeguard their children.

There are plenty of families on low incomes and whilst that can cause issues such as overcrowding etc the majority of them are doing the best for children under their circumstances

OhHolyJesus · 02/01/2022 22:23

@Dozer

Think £4500 is much less than the Uk average expenses.
This is just the membership cost. It doesn't cover the 'science' bit. The costs of the implantation alone would never be covered by less than £1k.

And 'legals' at £800?! This would more wisely be labelled as mediation as contracts aren't applicable in the U.K. maybe its legal advice to ensure the surrogate mother understands her legal position - but again this appears to be for members/commissioning parent/s. Maybe it's both?

Surrogacy expenses average 12-15k it has been claimed and 'expenses' as high as 60k have been recorded.

I simply don't understand how this breakdown is realistic.

Helleofabore · 02/01/2022 22:21

Whatabout Whatabout.

Starcup · 02/01/2022 22:20

Lovely life for the poor kids…..