Page 2 | People behind Wild Womyn Workshop receive death threats

Needmoresleep · 2021-12-29T19:01:30+00:00

[[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10272223/Lesbian-businesswoman-designs-feminist-t-shirts-worn-J-K-Rowling-receives-death-threats.html]] This is not acceptable. I like that the DM includes a link to their website at the end of the article. Not sure the DM readership is their target market, but a nice touch. Go witches go...

OnlyTheTitosaurusOfTheIceberg · 02/01/2022 12:38

At most you get the mealy mouthed “of course threats are wrong but…” (there’s an example of exactly that on this thread) which always reminds me of Jon Snow’s very accurate comment in GOT that “everything before the ‘but’ is horse shit”, because it’s quite clear the person saying it thinks the recipient of the threats somehow brought it upon themselves…which proves they think threats are a justifiable response in some situations, rather than automatically reprehensible and wrong no matter what.

TheWeeDonkey · 02/01/2022 12:12

@WhatScratch

Whether you agree with her views or you find them offensive, why isn’t everyone on all sides of this saying that it’s never acceptable to send death threats or to threaten rape or physical violence?

Because when these vile threats are sent to unapologetic feminists and lesbians its different for "reasons"

WhatScratch · 02/01/2022 11:53

Whether you agree with her views or you find them offensive, why isn’t everyone on all sides of this saying that it’s never acceptable to send death threats or to threaten rape or physical violence?

OnlyTheTitosaurusOfTheIceberg · 02/01/2022 11:44

I find it far more offensive that so little respect is given to the reality of being a woman - particularly the impact of our biology, but also female socialisation and growing up having to navigate the male gaze - some people now believe it can be reduced to some kind of vague undefinable “essence” that anyone can identify with having.

EricCartmansGoatee · 02/01/2022 11:41

I'd have thought a lesbian would be interested in promoting safe spaces for trans women to exist

Why?

VestofAbsurdity · 02/01/2022 11:38

@baffledbunny

REgarding her slogans from the article . I agree with these two: 'Protect women-only spaces' and 'Female biology is not bigotry'

But not with this: 'Trans women are men', I think this is offensive.

I think if a trans person wants to identify as a woman or a man they should be allowed to do so, and this should be respected.

I'd have thought a lesbian would be interested in promoting safe spaces for trans women to exist, not creating an atmosphere of judgement. I don't agree with the attacks on her though, which is out of order.

How do you protect women-only spaces if you have to allow and respect a man who identifies as a woman?

The minute you allow any man into a woman only-space it ceases to be a woman only space.

Why should a lesbian be promoting safe spaces for transwomen? Transwoman are men, it's impossible to be a transwoman otherwise, it's not a judgement is just plain, cold, hard fact. Why aren't transwomen promoting and lobbying for their own, separate safe spaces, why are you expecting women and lesbian women in particular to do it for them?

Odense · 02/01/2022 11:05

People really are uncomfortable with women standing for women aren’t they?

R0SEMARY · 02/01/2022 10:52

I'd have thought a lesbian would be interested in promoting safe spaces for trans women to exist, not creating an atmosphere of judgement

Oh you are so funny @baffledbunny. OF COURSE lesbians should be centring men in everything they do and validating their feelings.

It’s not up to MEN to make male spaces safe for all men, however they identify. It’s up to woman, particularly lesbians, to act as human shields and support humans.

It’s not as if lesbians as entitled to any human rights of their own .

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 02/01/2022 10:49

@baffledbunny

REgarding her slogans from the article . I agree with these two: 'Protect women-only spaces' and 'Female biology is not bigotry'

But not with this: 'Trans women are men', I think this is offensive.

I think if a trans person wants to identify as a woman or a man they should be allowed to do so, and this should be respected.

I'd have thought a lesbian would be interested in promoting safe spaces for trans women to exist, not creating an atmosphere of judgement. I don't agree with the attacks on her though, which is out of order.

isn't the 'be kind' knot people tie themselves in interesting?

women have distinct bodies from men
if a man wants to be a woman it's offensive not to go along with that though
women should provide service to men at all times - lesbians should be promoting safe spaces for men

the cognitive dissonance must be exhausting

Bordois · 02/01/2022 10:18

I'd have thought a lesbian would be interested in promoting safe spaces for trans women to exist

Why do you think lesbians should be interested in this?

Linguini · 02/01/2022 10:02

Only men can be transwomen 🤷🏻‍♀️

If I, (a woman) identified as a transwoman I'd be called all sorts of names...

Helleofabore · 02/01/2022 09:03

But not with this: 'Trans women are men', I think this is offensive.

I look at this and wonder just how much language has been twisted. How much society has gone along with the detachment of woman and man from their centuries old and common usage.

OnlyTheTitosaurusOfTheIceberg · 02/01/2022 08:55

But not with this: 'Trans women are men', I think this is offensive.

Why do you dislike men so much that you find being one offensive? Pointing out someone is a man is a biological fact, not a value judgement.

ArabellaScott · 02/01/2022 08:00

@baffledbunny

REgarding her slogans from the article . I agree with these two: 'Protect women-only spaces' and 'Female biology is not bigotry'

But not with this: 'Trans women are men', I think this is offensive.

I think if a trans person wants to identify as a woman or a man they should be allowed to do so, and this should be respected.

I'd have thought a lesbian would be interested in promoting safe spaces for trans women to exist, not creating an atmosphere of judgement. I don't agree with the attacks on her though, which is out of order.

You think any male, even a rapist, can 'identify' as a woman and should therefore be entitled to be housed in a woman's prison? Or take part in women's sport? Or attend a group specifically for women rape survivors? Because of how he 'identifies'?

R0BYN · 02/01/2022 01:44

@CompleteGinasaur

Personally I'm absolutely fine with TERF being glamourised and normalised. I haven't been glamourous since the 90's.

baffledbunny · 02/01/2022 01:07

REgarding her slogans from the article . I agree with these two:
'Protect women-only spaces' and 'Female biology is not bigotry'

But not with this: 'Trans women are men', I think this is offensive.

I think if a trans person wants to identify as a woman or a man they should be allowed to do so, and this should be respected.

I'd have thought a lesbian would be interested in promoting safe spaces for trans women to exist, not creating an atmosphere of judgement. I don't agree with the attacks on her though, which is out of order.

BlackeyedSusan · 02/01/2022 00:32

@Grumpyosaurus

The analogy is spot on. The n-word is a slur. It is a term used to insult and demean, rather than just describe. So is terf.

As for feminism... Honestly, I'm not sure if you lack the capacity to understand or are so convinced of your virtue that you can't get your head around another POV, but feminism is about women. That is, the old fashioned XX type. The type repressed and abused for millennia because (get this) they are the ones who have the babies which puts them at a massive physical disadvantage.

Women, due to their biology, were shat on from a great height for centuries. Men wanted to control reproduction, so they needed to control women. They were, on average, significantly bigger and stronger (this is because of a hormone called testosterone, which you may have heard of), so they were well able to control the baby-makers, and in many places they still do. Women got a bit sick of not being able to own proper, or vote, or earn the same as men for the same work, hence feminism. Hence the rejection of gender roles and stereotypes, which just serves to keep us in our (very unequal) place.

Feminism, the sort I ascribe to, is about women, not people who were once men. It's about the rejection of gender, while at the same time acknowledging that there are real differences between men and women. Trans rights are not the same as feminism. I can believe that feminism is about actual, natal women, and still be 100% in favour of trans people having the same rights that we all have, provided (and this is the kicker) that doesn't result in women being, yet again, shat on from a great height, and losing oh, dunno, the right to be safe if incarcerated, or to compete fairly in sports.

I hope that's clear.

V clear. Thanks.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/01/2022 13:16

Wonderful quote on Wild Womyn's Workshop Facebook page to welcome
in 2022: "this year is the year we break down the madness brick by brick!"

FemaleAndLearning · 01/01/2022 11:57

What an amazing woman Angela Wild is. I can't imagine what she has been going through with all that high level abuse, it must be very scary. I've just put an order in for some of her fantastic products.
Women won't shut up and be told what they can and can't do and I'm grateful for her in making a stand despite the risks.

ScreamingMeMe · 01/01/2022 10:21

I mean, if you want to play the "You do it too" game...

And also the "Terf isn't a slur" game...

God this is all so tedious.

photos.app.goo.gl/z2cbyxLSMsGEjEyKA

terfisaslur.com

Berkspolix · 31/12/2021 11:02

And hey, Maggie Pie ended up scraping the barrel till they were able to find a porn actress in California who had crossed the line to use as a gotcha. It is so tedious, and worse still, so intellectually weak.

Exactly, TRA's trawling the backwaters of the internet to find someone (not even in the UK) to bash women with is kinda pathetic.

Original poster

Needmoresleep · 31/12/2021 10:13

I came back to thank Someposters for answering my question yesterday, only to find that the post had been deleted. I assume because the linking of a suicide to the behaviour of a person would breach media guidelines.

The other part of the answer was revealing. Someposters only reads science magazines. (Though presumably not articles about chromosomes.) Yet someposters feels able to lecture others on their choice of media, seemingly believing that their life experience, or rather their interpretation of experiences in their life is superior to those who take in information from elsewhere before forming views.

I am sick of this "I am right because I am right. If you do not agree with me, you are wrong and bad and wicked" sort of argument.

As for our Wild Womyn shero. She lives in a market economy. If people don't like the slogans on her T shirts, they won't buy them.

I wonder if the anger directed at her relates to a loss of control. For a long time women, and indeed organisations, were cowed. Accept our language or you are a TERF and thus hateful and phobic and beyond the pale. Then brave women, from all sorts of backgrounds, started standing up and stating their views, effectively defying the accusers to identify content that was hateful. And hey, Maggie Pie ended up scraping the barrel till they were able to find a porn actress in California who had crossed the line to use as a gotcha. It is so tedious, and worse still, so intellectually weak.

OP posts:

bordermidgebite · 31/12/2021 09:01

Actually came across something interesting

Did a bit of a google around the 200 trans friends at funeral because it seemed unusual

Came across an article on a recent trans suicide in Canada, very sad case as ever these things are

The article did not quote the usual high suicide line about transgender people

It actually read " transgender and gender none conforming "

It would be really interesting to understand the later in particular.

I hope that the wild woman is not at increased risk of suicide as a result of the hate she has received

ArabellaScott · 31/12/2021 08:24

Yes, I did think that, Goats. What is the point of it? Why come and try and make these hopeless 'gotcha' attempts? They're not argument points, they're not even coherent.

I forget that some people argue to express anger, as much as to get anywhere.

Deliriumoftheendless · 31/12/2021 07:49

@Goatsaregreat

Do posters who find themselves on a feminist board minimising and excusing threats and violence against women ever wonder how they got to such a place? Do they ever wonder why a lack of care and empathy for women and children appears to be a feature rather than a flaw in their thinking?

No they don’t because they’re not posting because they care about any of the issues being discussed. They’re posting to turn the conversation to them.